Please edit out swipes like "Have you actually read" and name-calling like "This FUD is nonsense". Those things destroy conversation and break the site guidelines, and your comment would be just fine without them.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

What's your point? Yes, these carveouts all fall back to a version of the law that is much more lenient on the definition of an independent contractor. That should be obvious...if there wasn't any pre-existing law that defined contractor, businesses would make every employee a contractor.

AB5 can't override past precedent and Federal supremacy. That they didn't try is a sign of the bare minimum of legislative competency that I would expect from a legislature.

Source? Everything I've read suggests that past precedent is overriden by AB5 if not for the carveouts.

Additionally, take a look at AB2257 which was an update to AB5 passed last month that adds a ton more carveouts.

Example source: https://www.wagehourblog.com/2020/03/articles/california-wag...

I couldn't get past the first few sections oF that soUrce, which incluDes nuggets like Or maybe AB 5 and Dynamex. Or maybe AB 5 and Dynamex and Borello. Or maybe just Dynamex.

The very recent Dynamex and the relatively old Borello decisions are California Supreme Court Cases that take precedence over California legislation baring a California Constitutional Amendment or sweeping labor reform. AB5 gets rid of ambiguities, not create them. That's why the intro to AB5 reads:

SECTION 1. The Legislature finds and declares all of the following:

(a) On April 30, 2018, the California Supreme Court issued a unanimous decision in Dynamex Operations West, Inc. v. Superior Court of Los Angeles (2018) 4 Cal.5th 903 (Dynamex).

AB5 is meant to bring state regulations in line with the courts, which just established new and important precedent for California labor law in Dynamex that created new ambiguities in a critical set of laws. That decision doesn't supersede Borello, which is a well litigated topic that any lawyer specializing in California labor law understands.

Thank you for the reference to AB2257 [0], I didn't know about it. A cursory scan implies that the legislature is responding to real situations like Vox Media's laying off of hundreds of journalists [1], more Borello (!) [2], some exceptions that reasonable people can argue is common sense or corruption [3], and a bunch of other boring stuff [4]. I don't have the time to really dig into the new bill but if you can name any specific section in either bill that you find particular egregious, I'm interested to know.

[0] https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtm...

[1] This bill would delete the existing professional services exemptions for services provided by still photographers, photojournalists, freelance writers, editors, and newspaper cartoonists. The bill would, instead, establish an exemption for services provided by a still photographer, photojournalist, videographer, or photo editor, as defined, who works under a written contract that specifies certain terms, subject to prescribed restrictions. The bill would establish an exemption for services provided to a digital content aggregator, as defined, by a still photographer, photojournalist, videographer, or photo editor. The bill would establish an exemption for services provided by a fine artist, freelance writer, translator, editor, content contributor, advisor, narrator, cartographer, producer, copy editor, illustrator, or newspaper cartoonist who works under a written contract that specifies certain terms, subject to prescribed restrictions.

[2] 2776. Section 2775 and the holding in Dynamex do not apply to a bona fide business-to-business contracting relationship, as defined below, under the following conditions:

(a) If an individual acting as a sole proprietor, or a business entity formed as a partnership, limited liability company, limited liability partnership, or corporation (“business service provider”) contracts to provide services to another such business or to a public agency or quasi-public corporation (“contracting business”), the determination of employee or independent contractor status of the business services provider shall be governed by Borello, if the contracting business demonstrates that all of the following criteria are satisfied: ...

[3] (2) (A) “Referral agency” is a business that provides clients with referrals for service providers to provide services under a contract, with the exception of services in subparagraph (C).

(B) Under this paragraph, referrals for services shall include, but are not limited to, graphic design, web design, photography, tutoring, consulting, youth sports coaching, caddying, wedding or event planning, services provided by wedding and event vendors, minor home repair, moving, errands, furniture assembly, animal services, dog walking, dog grooming, picture hanging, pool cleaning, yard cleanup, and interpreting services.

(C) Under this paragraph, referrals for services do not include services provided in an industry designated by the Division of Occupational Safety and Health or the Department of Industrial Relations as a high hazard industry pursuant to subparagraph (A) of paragraph (3) of subdivision (e) of Section 6401.7 of the Labor Code or referrals for businesses that provide janitorial, delivery, courier, transportation, trucking, agricultural labor, retail, logging, in-home care, or construction services other than minor home repair.

[4] (7) “Interpreting services” means:

(A) Services provided by a certified or registered interpreter in a language with an available certification or registration through the Judicial Council of California, State Personnel Board, or any other agency or department in the State of California, or through a testing organization, agency, or educational institution approved or recognized by the state, or through the Registry of Interpreters for the Deaf, Certification Commission for Healthcare Interpreters, National Board of Certification for Medical Interpreters, International Association of Conference Interpreters, United States Department of State, or the Administrative Office of the United States Courts.

(B) Services provided by an interpreter in a language without an available certification through the entities listed in subparagraph (A).

The legislature could modify existing laws and override precedent set by the courts, to the extent it is not unconstitutional. And the interpretation of what is a contractor or employee has largely not been a constitutional matter, it is about interpreting the vague, silent and conflicting labor laws. The Federal labor laws almost always explicitly allow states to set stricter limits, they do not preempt state laws via supremacy

AB5 is the stricter limit CA is setting, no? The legislature does have plenary power to "enforce a complete system of workers’ compensation" but no one's going to undertake the challenge of massive labor reform challenging Borello and the ABC test for Ubers' sake, especially when it's so contentious (for what it's worth, I'm slightly biased because of the fear it'll open the door to other labor law poison pills). AB5 brings the existing framework into spec with Borello/Dynamex and clarifies open questions.

That's why Uber, Lyft, et al have thrown almost $200 million behind the prop 22 marketing campaign. Even if the legislature overturns AB5, the core reasons behind the court's decision remain for future lawsuits to hammer home. AFAICT Uber's only hope is the CA Supreme Court not doing to Prop 22 what it did to Prop 8 or Federal reform. They're not going to get it from the state legislature.

AB2257 added significantly more exemptions.

A quick list (likely much more / more complicated than this) of carveouts I could find:

accountants

architects

cartographers

copy editors

dentists

direct sales salespersons

engineers

fine artists

fishermen working on an American vessel

freelance editors

freelance writers

insurance agents

insurance inspectors

investment advisers

landscape architects

lawyers

manufactured housing salespersons

musicians involved in sound recordings or musical compositions

musicians with single-engagement live performances

newspaper cartoonists

photojournalists

podiatrists

private investigators

producers

professional foresters

psychologists

real estate appraisers

securities broker-dealers

still photographers

surgeons

translators

veterinarians

youth sports coaches

Industries with exemptions:

appraising

auditing

competition judging

copy editing and illustrations

digital content and feedback aggregation

home inspections

insurance underwriting inspections

international and cultural exchange services

landscape architecture

manufactured housing sales

master class performance

performing arts

recording arts and music

registered professional forestry

risk management and loss control

translation of documents

You make claims that this list is shorter than other non-trivial bills. I've worked in this space trying to get things right - this is BY FAR the hardest to implement law out there. A seller wants to sell their home, as part of that they pay out of escrow for an appraiser (normally handled as a contractor) to appraise the house. Under AB5 they had to HIRE that person as an employee in most cases - they are not even setup to run payroll!

An org wants to sponsor a "fellowship" for $1,000 or $2,000 to a student and have them attend an event / do a presentation. Can't do that under AB5, they can't be 1099'ed anymore, they are below exempt comp threshold, even if you pay them as non-exempt this student has to track their hours "working" for employer, get paid overtime etc. Reality - student doesn't want to track their hours, employer doesn't care and doesn't want to have to onboard and ramp up someone for a feel good thing like a $2,000 fellowship and program is cancelled.

You hire someone to write an article. Do you want them tracking their hours, do they? Will you hire them if you might have to pay for hours and overtime and missed meal breaks while someone is at home writing this article?

The list goes on.