By your definition, Feudal England was "collective ownership". A handful of executives having ownership of a company != collective ownership, that's closer to an Oligarchy than anything.

This article does make me wonder about the practicality of Medicare for All. From this example, it seems like a great way to line hospital executives’ pockets with taxpayer money. Is the goal to institute a Medicare for All system alongside requirements for everyone to move to a not-for-profit model?

If the government is the only payer, they can squeeze the excess profit out of the system year over year.

"Hey, we noticed you pay your executives $25 million a year. We decided to cut the executive pay allowance this year."

"Hey, we noticed you're paying your shareholders 50% of your revenue. You seem pretty profitable, so we're cutting your reimbursement rates for all procedures this year."

Such a system is eminently practical. What's not practical is the current US system.

Non-profit hospitals still charge normal people insane prices for nothing. Non profit does not insulate us from predatory practices.

Hospitals want to grow and want to stay solvent (regardless if they're for or non-profit). $400 Ibuprofen it is!

Price transparency is one solution for this.

It's a very good question. It's why M4A was always a pragmatic centrist compromise, when really to get maximum efficiency you need an NHS. It's weird that Romneycare ended up playing the part of the radical communist bugabear for the right as premiums skyrocket and more profits are being made than ever. VA hospitals for all would be the real lefty dream.

Come to the NHS in the UK to see maximum operational efficiency. Pretty efficient if you died waiting for your turn in line, or because the government decided that your ailment isn't severe enough to warrant the use of that blockbuster therapy.

The UK NHS was founded as an avowedly socialist endeavour and I fail to see what is fundamentally wrong with it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aneurin_Bevan

NB I'm not claiming that the NHS is perfect but I suspect most of its problems actually stem from management consultants and politicians rather than medics or patients.

NHS is not "means of production" by any extend, unlike the hospital cos, even if they are "non-profit" on the paper for as long as they are de-jure joint stock corporations with board, investors, and other stock company nonsense.

Not sure I agree that the ownership/control structure for an organisation (in this case a hospital) determines whether it is "means of production" or not?

If it can be used as such (make money/bought/sold,) and legalities allow (powerless company charter not withstanding,) it will be used as such.

NHS (and Europe healthcare in general) is not socialism. It's part of a social democracy. But I see your point.

Having experienced healthcare in a few European countries (including the NHS), and having several doctor relatives, I don't think it's a good deal. The cost of healthcare is really high, you pay a lot of taxes, the hospitals are subpar quality, you have to queue / wait for hours / days / weeks / months and the service provided is rationed. The government decide which tests you get to do according to their playbook. Basically if you want something done quickly you need to pay - but you're already paying for public health in taxes. My doctor relatives are often skeptical of the the government provided guidelines on how to treat people, but they still follow them because if you don't you'll be liable for whatever happens.

The most recent and incredible case is the use of corticosteroids for covid patients. My doctor relative and colleagues wanted to use them in some cases but they were told not to and to follow the guidelines. Now that corticosteroids are being recommended, they've been told to don't talk to the newspapers, because they fear people thinking it was a state sanctioned mass murder.

Some more examples of how public health care sucks in everyday life:

- I had an unbearable stomach pain and after self diagnosing myself a range of potential issues (some of which needed tests to be proven) I went to the hospital. At the time I was switching jobs so I didn't have private insurance setup. After waiting for 4hrs the doctor told me that because I was under 40 I wouldn't get any tests done and she told me to go and buy some stomach medicines. The pain was unbearable, so I setup my private insurance, did some test and I ended up having a stomach ulcer which needed surgical treatment. So much for public health care, I could have died.

- My wife replaced teeth fillings via NHS (it's "free" for new moms), we thought it was something simple enough that we wouldn't have problems. So we waited for months for an appointment and got it done. After a couple of weeks the filling fell off - and the same thing repeated three times. Eventually we went back to our usual dentist and she didn't have problems with her new filling.

It's slightly different here in the United States. We already have medicaid if you make less than about $1400/mo it is free. I have purchased health insurance coverage through the state exchange and that is where the real fun begins.

Here you basically have to ask your insurer if they will pay for damn near everything and record the interaction ID otherwise you're getting a supprise bill which are supposedly banned.

Had to deal with this in the last week it is infuriating wasting so much time on hold or navigating through a phone tree.

We should really be making a yellow vest style movement against this just and burn the whole healthcare system down. Unless you work for a select few companies or have the medicaid it's a nightmare to deal with.

Also the problem is we don't give a damn about preventative care and nutrition so you end up with a majority overweight/obese population that you could have prevented with a fraction of the cost in preventative care.

The situation with dentistry is weird, I agree with that. I pay for private dental insurance.

As for everything else - I literally have no complaints about the treatment anyone in our family has had from the NHS. Of course, other people will have had bad experiences - that is inevitable with something the size of the NHS but I don't.

NB We have neighbours who are NHS doctors who complain about the costs of the German healthcare system - everybody has some problems!

Edit: About a month ago, on a Sunday, my wife got what appeared to be an insect bite that had become infected. She phoned NHS 24, spoke to someone and had to wait for an hour for a nurse to phone back. The nurse said it was best to play safe and arranged a hospital appointment for about 7pm. I drove her to the appointment and she was in, examined by a doctor and out again in about 30 minutes with a pack of antibiotics to take.

Cost: £0 (prescriptions are free in Scotland).

That is pretty typical of my experience of the NHS.

My SO worked in the NHS previously and is currently working in the German system. Either system has their faults, but the German system of public-regulated private health care offerings far outweighs the NHS experience. Plus, it is much better for her iho, since her departments don't have to deal with some nonsensical cuts because of some bullshit political maneuvering. Personally it has been a lot healthy for her and for us, since she isn't as overworked and underpaid (as much) as before.

I don't think the communists want an investment fund...

If you think so, I suggest you to actually read what Marx wrote. Shared, and collectively owned/managed means of productions is exactly that.