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Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by dboreham on Friday October 16, 2020 @09:07PM (#24806646)
Apart from watching on TV and the movies, my only brush with this world was a 1/2 day spent interviewing at McLaren in 1990. It was very clear from every engineer I talked to that they had fairly low opinion of the drivers. One of the projects we discussed was a new telemetry system, its primary purpose to allow them to prove conclusively when the driver did something stupid.

I didn't take the job if anyone was curious, for personal reasons. Too much travel required to F1 events..

Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by atmosx on Saturday October 17, 2020 @02:46AM (#24807923)
McLaren’s driver duo in 1990 were Ayrton Senna and Allen Prost.

Are you sure the engineers weren’t just petty little creatures trying to get some spotlight?

I can assure you that no engineer could win a race against either one. Additionally, Senna has proved that he do “well” with much inferior cars, there must be something going on there as well...

As someone who races every now and then for fun, I can assure you that there is skill involved and domain knowledge. A lot of domain knowledge.

Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by reallydontask on Saturday October 17, 2020 @03:03AM (#24808005)
> I can assure you that no engineer could win a race against either one

You could turn that around and say that no F1 driver could design a car that would win in aero dominated F1 (mid 70s? onwards).

The car dominates in modern F1, you need look no further than the current Mercs.

Sure a good driver can outdrive the car but do you honestly think that Hamilton would've won in 2015's McLaren?

Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by WalterBright on Saturday October 17, 2020 @03:37AM (#24808173)
I took one of those 3 day racing courses (lots of fun, highly recommended!). We drove Formula Fords, with classroom lectures interspersed with track practice.

Early on, we were limited to 50 mph, and were sent out to practice racing lines around Watkins Glen. We thought we were hot stuff wheeling hard around the turns.

Then the instructor told us to get in the van and he'd drive us around giving us pointers. He drove with his left hand on the wheel, and his body turned around facing backwards at us while he lectured us. He was sliding the van around the turns at 70 mph, and I doubt his heart rate exceeded 70 BPM.

It was a very humbling experience.

Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by WalterBright on Saturday October 17, 2020 @03:34AM (#24808154)
I've watched a couple documentaries on Senna. They'd all say Senna just drove faster than the others. Nothing said about just what Senna did to be faster, which was very frustrating. I didn't believe that Senna did anything magical.
Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by romanoderoma on Saturday October 17, 2020 @05:13AM (#24808696)
He drive differently

He used techniques that helped the car to use the maximum possible grip, avoiding sliding or throttle partialisation

For example at Monza, in times of manual gear, he could switch from 4th to 5th in between the two turns of Lesmo, nobody else could, it meant gaining a tenth of a second every single lap and the pole position

For reference, this is how Senna throttle technique sounded at Monza's parabolica

https://youtu.be/LId5SKxljqs

Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by WalterBright on Saturday October 17, 2020 @06:15AM (#24808950)
Thank you, that video and the explanations is great.
Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by TheGallopedHigh on Saturday October 17, 2020 @08:11AM (#24809386)
This video might help explain specific techniques that he used to be faster: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4kcLyYhThE
Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by WalterBright on Saturday October 17, 2020 @07:13PM (#24814175)
Very illuminating, thanks! I've also heard you can get slightly more lateral grip in a turn by rapidly moving the steering wheel back and forth - for the same reason as the throttle stamping and brake stamping.
Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by beastieboyce on Saturday October 17, 2020 @11:53AM (#24810875)
Senna and Gerhard Berger in 1990. Alain Prost had switched to Ferrari.
Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by atmosx on Sunday October 18, 2020 @01:37PM (#24819603)
Re:Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in... by watwut on Saturday October 17, 2020 @05:06AM (#24808655)
That is mostly about politics and blame shifting in high stress high pressure situation. And us vs then dynamic.

That does not actually show the drivers regularly do stupid things or that it would be easy for human to stop doing things the engineers considered stupid.