News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by eitland on Thursday October 15, 2020 @10:04PM (#24796664)
> Twitters official policy is to not allow publication of hacked material or information with Personally Identifying Information - and this material was hacked and had unredacted personal email addresses

I think the idea is that if this is the rule, a lot of Republicans think it has already been broken a number of times against them.

Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by boomboomsubban on Friday October 16, 2020 @12:15AM (#24797403)
Do you have any examples of someone's non-public contact information being shared without a response? Their guidelines permit discussion and linking to press stories of hacks provided they don't include someone’s private information, information that could put people at risk of physical harm or danger; and/or information related to trade secrets.
Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by barbacoa on Friday October 16, 2020 @01:04AM (#24797663)
Saying a public person's email address is private information that could lead to physical harm is quite a stretch. If the NYP had redacted the email addresses they would have named a different excuse.
Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by bmarquez on Friday October 16, 2020 @01:24AM (#24797762)
I've seen commenters on HN that claim that the emails are suspect because they don't include DKIM signatures. Redacting the email would make it even more suspicious in their eyes.
Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by boomboomsubban on Friday October 16, 2020 @05:36AM (#24799140)
I'm not saying that, it is a list of three. And on the guideline for "private information," non-public emails are explicitly mentioned.
Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by barbacoa on Friday October 16, 2020 @10:34AM (#24801161)
If it has been published in a major newspaper is it still non-public?
Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by boomboomsubban on Friday October 16, 2020 @11:36AM (#24801843)
Yes, it is compromised private information.
Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by joe_the_user on Friday October 16, 2020 @02:57AM (#24798282)
Sure,

Maybe Twitter would have found other reasons to block the story if it didn't violate an explicit policy literally, for example it being fake news. Calling something fake news takes more investigation and judgement so the reason they gave was simplest.

It's like, boy, they sure have it in for a sleazy and deceptive hit-piece meant to influence an election at the last moment. Unfair!

Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by 0xB31B1B on Friday October 16, 2020 @01:37AM (#24797834)
Trump shared Lindsey Graham’s phone number on Twitter during the 2016 election primary.
Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by boomboomsubban on Friday October 16, 2020 @05:43AM (#24799176)
The rule was enacted in 2019, though Donald Trump gave out Graham's number during a rally.
Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by Natsu on Friday October 16, 2020 @12:46AM (#24797575)
Blue Leaks comes to mind.
Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by boomboomsubban on Friday October 16, 2020 @05:40AM (#24799160)
Blueleaks led to numerous twitter suspensions, and note that the your linked account does not feature "ddossecrets" in the bio because of that.
Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by newacct583 on Friday October 16, 2020 @01:03AM (#24797661)
Was that shared on Twitter?
Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by Natsu on Friday October 16, 2020 @01:50AM (#24797891)
Yes:

https://twitter.com/blue_leaks

This one is more also nefarious than it looks, because it includes private information on victims of crime.

Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by newacct583 on Friday October 16, 2020 @11:31AM (#24801798)
How is Hunter Biden not the victim of this crime? Even if you believe the laptop story, his data was stolen.

But you're right. Blue Leaks, if they share hacked personal data on Twitter, should absolutely be banned under the same policy.

Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by boomboomsubban on Friday October 16, 2020 @11:37AM (#24801855)
Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by Natsu on Friday October 16, 2020 @12:59PM (#24802696)
They don't seem to be doing a very good job of it given that it took me just a few moments to find the material on an account named blue_leaks ...
Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by boomboomsubban on Friday October 16, 2020 @05:53PM (#24805422)
That account seems to post news stories about the leaks, which is not a violation of the guidelines. The group that published the leaks had their account banned and links to their site blocked.
Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by Natsu on Friday October 16, 2020 @01:01PM (#24802719)
> Even if you believe the laptop story, his data was stolen.

They allegedly have a contractual right to the laptop due to non-payment. It's a damn good reason not to take your PC there for repairs, though.

Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by mike00632 on Friday October 16, 2020 @02:16PM (#24803470)
I hope you realize how unlikely the laptop story is to be true.
Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by Natsu on Friday October 16, 2020 @04:07PM (#24804531)
I can understand why it feels "too perfect" for an October surprise, sure, but then how did they get the pictures of Hunter sleeping with a meth pipe? I ran them through the tools on hackerfactor.com and I see no obvious fakery.

I've heard rumors that Hunter was allegedly hacked to get them, but I have yet to see media reports of this from prior to this story breaking. If you can provide some, please do!

Right now, my take is that, at best, this is an elaborate cover story for releasing real dirt and at worst, it's legit, like the time Hunter returned a rental car with a crack pipe in it. We'll need to dig into it further, though, I want to see if the emails have DKIM validation with a body hash parameter, etc.

Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by newacct583 on Friday October 16, 2020 @07:03PM (#24805842)
> We'll need to dig into it further, though

Fundamentally, the reason this got banned and then ignored is that that need is SUPPOSED to be supplied by the journalists doing the research, not random conspiracy nerds on the internet.

> I've heard rumors that Hunter was allegedly hacked to get them, but I have yet to see media reports of this

Exactly! Which is the level of rigor you should expect to see from your sources. Which makes it doubly frustrating that you seem not to be applying that same logic to the original story.

FWIW: I'll bet you anything that no headers ever appear for those emails anywhere (at least none from western domains -- I'll admit to the possibility that the Kremlin could forge a DKIM signature for a Burisma address). They're almost certainly forgeries, which is why they're being distributed in the crazy obfuscated way they are.

Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by Natsu on Saturday October 17, 2020 @01:55AM (#24807731)
Well, let's just say that there aren't many journalists I trust to validate a DKIM signature and even then it matters whether there's a body hash in it or not. The last time this came up, I know that I personally pulled the DKIM key to check and I never saw any journalist doing that, though several did repeat Donna Brazille's claim that the email was fabricated--something proven directly false by the body hash parameter on the email claimed to be fake.

Oh, and the relevant DKIM key in that case came from Hillary's DNS server, I know because I pulled it myself. Maybe the Kremlin hacked that, but that would implicate a lot more reporting than just Donna's claims.

So yes, I do want to see more journalism regarding this, but it also needs sufficient rigor. I don't just believe any random person who claims XYZ, whether or not I tend to agree with them, I want to see verifiable facts.

And yeah, those are in pretty short supply. I've seen tons of anonymous rumors, various forms of citogenesis, etc. far more often than I've seen things that can be subjected to some kind of objective fact finding process.

Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by newacct583 on Saturday October 17, 2020 @10:26AM (#24810189)
> Well, let's just say that there aren't many journalists I trust to validate a DKIM signature

Uh... why would the journalist "validate" the DKIM signature? Publish the RFC822 content of the email and let everyone do it themselves. That's the whole point of public key encryption. And the fact that the Post skipped that very obvious and easy step tells me that this is almost certainly faked data.

> I don't just believe any random person who claims XYZ

With all respect: you clearly seem inclined to believe this nonsense about the emails with only the barest of evidence. It's only the attempts to refute it that have you worried about "rigor".

Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by Natsu on Saturday October 17, 2020 @11:13AM (#24810554)
Eh, sometimes the signatures fail to validate because mail clients do non-substantive modifications (spacing, etc.). We went through that before, too. You're right that one should always validate it themselves and I should've said that I don't think many journalists know how to work it, because honestly, I haven't seen anyone but Wikileaks actually do that validation, ever.

> With all respect: you clearly seem inclined to believe this nonsense about the emails with only the barest of evidence.

I haven't said anything about the email content, though. I investigated a photo of Hunter sleeping with a meth pipe using hackerfactor.com's tools to look for manipulation and did not find any. That doesn't mean they're real, but it gives them some level of credence, given that there are old reports about his rental car substantiated by police reports.

You're right that it doesn't validate the email content. I plan to withhold judgement until we have more data, but it looks like they do have some files of his.

It doesn't help that the last time we went through this sort of thing, there were spurious claims of manipulated documents which were actively disproved and some of the denials I've read parse very narrowly, which isn't right.

Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by skinkestek on Saturday October 17, 2020 @10:19AM (#24810144)
> but then how did they get the pictures of Hunter sleeping with a meth pipe?

Actually, and this is coming from someone who is definitely not a Democrat: I'd think that picture points towards planted evidence. The picture is probably real for what I know, but why would he keep it on his laptop?

Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by Natsu on Sunday October 18, 2020 @09:30PM (#24822617)
A better question is why he'd take it to begin with, but I've seen enough people post stupid pics of them doing drugs that I can't fully discount it for that reason.

I mean, how many times have we heard variations on "Idiot caught doing drugs after posting pics on Facebook/Instagram/etc."?

Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by bananabreakfast on Thursday October 15, 2020 @10:21PM (#24796760)
Ha, against "them". All republicans. As a monolith. As if they are a sports team.

This sums up the central problem in modern politics as a whole right here.

Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by techdragon on Thursday October 15, 2020 @11:31PM (#24797164)
Modern? George Washington warned about this in his farewell address. 8 years after the United States of America began this was already becoming a problem!

George Washington on “the spirit of party” in his farewell address:

> It serves always to distract the Public Councils, and enfeeble the Public Administration. It agitates the Community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection.

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Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by ghomrassen on Friday October 16, 2020 @09:19AM (#24800515)
I would imagine the opposite side would say the same.
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Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by retox on Friday October 16, 2020 @12:06AM (#24797355)
Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by ookblah on Friday October 16, 2020 @12:21AM (#24797430)
i always found this argument lacking, like what is that supposed to show me... that there were these 20 times he denounced them and then this VERY publicly one time he didn't?

like imagine this was like child trafficking or something. you denounce that shit heavily each and every time, no ambiguity, no question. even if you're asked to do it 50 times it should be 50/50. the fact that people have to pull that as a "defense" is ridiculous lol.

Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by libraryatnight on Friday October 16, 2020 @01:46AM (#24797871)
The clips are almost exclusively him denouncing it in response to being criticized for not denouncing it. It's like a child that will say anything to get out of time out by the time he gets to it. It shouldn't take so much work.
Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by JamesBarney on Friday October 16, 2020 @01:17AM (#24797725)
> I always found this argument lacking, like what is that supposed to show me... that there were these 20 times he denounced them and then this VERY publicly one time he didn't?

Yes. This tells you his public stance is that he's anti white supremacist and willing to denounce them.

Do you honestly think he chose the debates as a the best time to secretly signal his base that he's a closet KKK member?

> like imagine this was like child trafficking or something. you denounce that shit heavily each and every time, no ambiguity, no question. even if you're asked to do it 50 times it should be 50/50. the fact that people have to pull that as a "defense" is ridiculous lol.

If my wife asks if I love her 50 times and I say yes 49 times, but once I get distracted. Which is more likely I secretly hate my wife or I just got distracted.

Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by cycomanic on Friday October 16, 2020 @01:47AM (#24797877)
So explain to me how do you get distracted in a presidential debate and when asked to condem a white supremacist group you say "proud boys stand back and stand by" that's not how you get distracted and forget to say something, that is how you talk to what you consider "your troops/team".
Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by JamesBarney on Friday October 16, 2020 @11:51AM (#24801997)
You're in your 70s and coming down with covid, the moderator asks you to tell white supremacists to "stand down". You ask the moderator who should you say that to? Biden interjects "proud boys". You try to repeat what the moderator told you but instead tell them to "stand back"/"stand by" instead of stand down.

Literally one of the people explaining how trump supports white supremacists to me made this exact same mistake despite him being in his 30s and not coming down with covid.

Trump is a terrible president for plenty of reasons, we don't need to make ones up.

Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by int_19h on Friday October 16, 2020 @01:33AM (#24797811)
His base certainly took it as a very good time, if you've seen how e.g. the Proud Boys reacted to it.
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Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by int_19h on Saturday October 17, 2020 @01:08AM (#24807587)
"I love being white and I think it's something to be very proud of"

- Gavin McInnes, the founder of Proud Boys

The group claims to not be racist, yes, and they do have non-white members. However, their specific stances on various issues do add up to a white supremacist group in practice. As for non-white membership, it seems to be more along the lines of "honorary Aryans".

Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by jacobush on Friday October 16, 2020 @04:03AM (#24798675)
Let's put it this way. The Proud Boys have more white supremacists among them than the general population have.
Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by JamesBarney on Friday October 16, 2020 @11:52AM (#24802007)
Very different than being a white supremacist organization.
Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by nostromo on Friday October 16, 2020 @02:03AM (#24797956)
“Yes, you’ve denounced them, but have you done so in the last 20 minutes?”

At a certain point you get tired of answering, “have you beaten your wife today?” Even if the answer is always no.

Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by libraryatnight on Friday October 16, 2020 @02:31AM (#24798111)
If your wife keeps showing up with black eyes muttering that she fell down the stairs, it merits asking every day. If Trump stopped pandering to white nationalists, people would stop having to ask.
Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by rayiner on Friday October 16, 2020 @04:10AM (#24798719)
It’s hard to tell what “pandering to white nationalists” means anymore, and I think the media perceives much more of that than actual non-white people do: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/18/opinion/biden-latino-vote...

> The results are sobering. We began by asking eligible voters how “convincing” they found a dog-whistle message lifted from Republican talking points. Among other elements, the message condemned “illegal immigration from places overrun with drugs and criminal gangs” and called for “fully funding the police, so our communities are not threatened by people who refuse to follow our laws.”

> Almost three out of five white respondents judged the message convincing. More surprising, exactly the same percentage of African-Americans agreed, as did an even higher percentage of Latinos.

> These numbers do not translate directly into support for the Republican Party; too many other factors are at play. Nevertheless, the results tell us something important: a majority across the groups we surveyed did not repudiate Trump-style rhetoric as obviously racist and divisive, but instead agreed with it.

If the media had any self-awareness, it wouldn’t automatically label points a majority of non white people “agreed with” as “obviously racist and divisive.”

As someone from a third-world country I felt this way over the pearl-clutching when Trump said “s—thole countries.” It’s a crass and very cruel thing to say. Definitely offensive. But not racist. People don’t leave Bangladesh because they’re racist, they do so because of the poverty, arsenic in the water, etc.

Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by libraryatnight on Friday October 16, 2020 @01:22PM (#24802941)
Is it hard? It seems to me he does it quite plainly. I feel like people who reach for defense of this man are having to face their own biases and demons and it's ugly.
Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by rayiner on Friday October 16, 2020 @01:43AM (#24797859)
This is a naive take on it. When someone asks you a question they know the answer to, because you have answered it before, they’re not trying to enlighten themselves. They are accusing you of something. In the case of Trump, they’re accusing him of being a white supremacist. In fact, Chris Wallace asked Trump the exact same question during the 2016 election debate, and he condemned white supremacy in no uncertain terms.

A diplomatic person would break out the canned condemnation for the 50th time. Trump is not a diplomatic person.

Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by wolco2 on Friday October 16, 2020 @02:14AM (#24798028)
If someone asks you the same question 50 times you ignore the person asking.

If 50 different people ask you the same question you put out a press release.

If 5000 ask you put out a news conference.

Responding to anything implies many things not r

Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by kgarten on Saturday October 17, 2020 @01:23AM (#24807630)
Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by esoterica on Friday October 16, 2020 @12:13AM (#24797394)
When you repeatedly go through the cycle of blaming "both sides" and telling white supremacists to "stand by", and then making your press office issue a correction after the fact when enough people complain about it, that doesn't count as condemning white supremacists.
Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by skinkestek on Friday October 16, 2020 @03:07AM (#24798337)
Do you really really think he supports white supremacists while having a Jewish son-in-law?

Do you think actual white supremacists are dumb enough to accept that? I accept that actual white supremacists aren't the brightest souls on this planet, but seriously?

Or is it just the general problem of

- taking things out of context

- using "white supremacist" as a general slur for people one doesn't like?

Because if all the people I see named as white supremacists were that then I think 2020 would be the year were white supremacists stood up for the Jews and that would be quite a news story for anyone who dared to break it :-)

Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by jacobush on Friday October 16, 2020 @03:58AM (#24798648)
Even in the old third Reich there were plenty of examples of "real-politik". And Trump will support anyone at a whim. He has no allegiance and policy.

Any non-dumb actual white supremacists are surely capable of playing the long game and deal with son-in-laws when they get there.

Re:Twitter and Facebook's action over Joe Biden article reig... by skinkestek on Friday October 16, 2020 @02:08AM (#24797986)
It seems this is well debunked for anyone who cares to check.

I'd recommend following people on both sides. It is ugly but you might come out smarter.