News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by xyzzy_plugh on Thursday October 08, 2020 @02:52PM (#24722411)
Alternatively, if you see a resume with Coinbase through 2020-2021, that person probably prefers the opposite, which may also be seen in a positive or negative light, depending on your stance.
Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by sprt on Thursday October 08, 2020 @03:38PM (#24722952)
Which, as your parent seems to not realize, is also a political stance. This dichotomy is exactly what MLK refers to in the Letter from a Bermingham Jail (i.e. positive vs negative peace).
Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by throwaway894345 on Thursday October 08, 2020 @04:05PM (#24723281)
What does this mean? If this is yet another “if you’re not for us you’re against us” argument (e.g. if you don’t discuss police violence in the workplace then you necessarily support police violence), then this is false on its face. If this means “the decision to not discuss politics—especially politics unrelated to one’s work—at work is itself a political decision” then fine, but what’s the point? Is the idea that it’s a self-inconsistent position? If so, how? One can discuss even the policy not to discuss politics at work without discussing e.g. police violence.
Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by Pils on Thursday October 08, 2020 @04:46PM (#24723780)
one inconsistency is that Coinbase is based in SF. Would you consider "sorry, I didn't get a lot of sleep due to police sound grenades going off until 3am" a political statement?
Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by throwaway894345 on Thursday October 08, 2020 @05:04PM (#24723938)
> one inconsistency is that Coinbase is based in SF

That's not an inconsistency.

> Would you consider "sorry, I didn't get a lot of sleep due to police sound grenades going off until 3am" a political statement?

No, of course not.

Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by Pils on Thursday October 08, 2020 @05:33PM (#24724167)
> > Would you consider "sorry, I didn't get a lot of sleep due to police sound grenades going off until 3am" a political statement?

> No, of course not.

Awesome. So it follows that you would have no issue then with a coworker stating: "Police activity in SF has negatively impacted my ability to do work". Congratulations, you have a significantly broader definition of acceptable workplace speech than Coinbase.

Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by throwaway894345 on Thursday October 08, 2020 @06:20PM (#24724551)
> Awesome. So it follows that you would have no issue then with a coworker stating

Of course I wouldn't have an issue (ignoring for the moment that you're apparently conflating me with coinbase), because this isn't a political statement.

> Congratulations, you have a significantly broader definition of acceptable workplace speech than Coinbase.

This is a pretty obvious straw man argument.

Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by x3n0ph3n3 on Thursday October 08, 2020 @06:25PM (#24724585)
The issue was never about people expressing their political opinions, but their demands that _Coinbase_ express political opinions and get mired in what police in SF may or may not be doing.
Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by Rebelgecko on Thursday October 08, 2020 @05:51PM (#24724299)
Can you elaborate on how that's an unacceptable thing to say at coinbase?
Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by nilkn on Thursday October 08, 2020 @11:28PM (#24726476)
I think this is a very simplistic take. The reason we’re seeing a crackdown on this is not because companies are making a political move to support the status quo. It’s because they’re trying to weed out and get rid of legitimately problematic and toxic people who abused the previous culture.

For instance, there was an instance not too long ago at Facebook where one engineer publicly attacked another completely peaceful coworker on Twitter because the latter declined to put a BLM statement on the landing page of an open source project they maintained. The former employee was eventually fired. These kinds of antics are deeply divisive and destructive to the workplace.

Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by webmaven on Friday October 09, 2020 @10:35AM (#24730285)
> For instance, there was an instance not too long ago at Facebook where one engineer publicly attacked another completely peaceful coworker on Twitter because the latter declined to put a BLM statement on the landing page of an open source project they maintained. The former employee was eventually fired. These kinds of antics are deeply divisive and destructive to the workplace.

It is unclear from your comment which employee was fired, unless "former" is intended in the ordinal sense (ie. "first") rather than temporal (ie. "prior"). Can you clarify?

Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by nilkn on Friday October 09, 2020 @11:02AM (#24730535)
Apologies, the employee who attacked their coworker on Twitter is the one who was fired.
Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by jiuahweruihawi on Friday October 09, 2020 @06:01PM (#24734860)
Well that's a ray of good news.

My wife works for a huge social media company that you've definitely heard of, and some of her higher-ups have told her they're worried that the rise of employee activism is going to tear the company's culture apart. I told her she should tell them to follow Coinbase's example.

Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by etangent on Thursday October 08, 2020 @04:04PM (#24723266)
For an action to be "political" in a strong sense, its performer it needs to be consciously thinking about their political alignment. Majority of people are economically motivated and do not engage in in-depth analysis of their actions or inactions and thus describing their actions as "political" is quite tendentious.
Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by Barrin92 on Thursday October 08, 2020 @07:43PM (#24725167)
you don't need to be actively aware of gravity to not float off the ground. You can act politically without being aware of that fact, that just means you're not conscious of what's driving your decision making.

Most politics and also culture expresses itself tacitly. By requiring some sort of conscious intent you're actually ignoring what is arguably the vast majority of political interaction. For example casual sexism and systematic mistreatment of women was just "normal" but nonetheless political. Of course the people doing the subtle discriminating don't like to think of it as political, because that implies responsibility for action.

Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by etangent on Friday October 09, 2020 @09:31AM (#24729722)
You are taking a "consequentialist" stance implying that if something has political consequences, then it is political. There are several problems with this.

First, literally anything could have political consequences, from a solar flare to a fly landing in someone's hair. This logic easily devolves into absurdity. Famously, Chinese government under Mao declared sparrows "public animals of capitalism" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Pests_Campaign

Second, when anything could be political, the moniker "political" (like any other inflated moniker) loses a lot of its meaning. And yet real politics is still done by real people with real consequences.

Third, raising everything to the status of political is an example of politicization. This is typical of totalitarian regimes. Totalitarian regimes are in fact characterized by the fact that literally everything is raised to the realm of political, the realm of rule by the regime. By pressuring others to be political, you are creating a totalitarian environment, a very unpleasant environment for most people to be as we already know from some very bitter 20th century lessons.

Fourth, politics is about having political enemies. When political enemy (opponent) does not exist, there is no politics as such. By insisting that people act politically, you are simultaneously insisting that they have enemies. There are profound moral problems with this, whether you are Christian or even not religious at all.

Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by Barrin92 on Friday October 09, 2020 @01:51PM (#24732489)
>This logic easily devolves into absurdity

The solar flare isn't political obviously, but the response to it is. human disaster usually is the consequence of bad responses to catastrophes which have been declared inevitable. (see the current American covid response). Something that actually is in the realm of politics is shoved into the category of thoughts and prayers.

>Third, raising everything to the status of political is an example of politicization. This is typical of totalitarian regimes

Politicisation isn't bad and the only thing your post is any evidence of is the typical midbrow "no politics or gulag" logic that every conservative American who is afraid of engaging in political conflict has been repeating ad nauseam. You may think you appear smarter if you complain about tribalism every five minutes and act like you're above the fray, but you are not. It's just a silly straw-man made by people who are afraid of political change.

Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by sprt on Thursday October 08, 2020 @04:27PM (#24723547)
Respectfully disagree. You're essentially arguing that they're not politically motivated in staying at/leaving their job. That's fair. Nevertheless their actions translate either support, inaction, or opposition. The implication which MLK argues is that inaction is harmful to the movement.
Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by etangent on Friday October 09, 2020 @09:21AM (#24729634)
You are taking a consequentialist stance, deciding that if something has political consequences, then it is political. But literally anything could have political consequences. A solar flare could have political consequences. A fly landing on someone's hair could have political consequences. This does not mean that flies are political!

If everything is political, then the moniker "political" is meaningless.

Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by libria on Thursday October 08, 2020 @03:23PM (#24722788)
It signals that a person did not want to be politically active at their workplace enough to lose/quit their job.

I think that says nothing of a persons political views and is just self-preservation or even indifference. Hiring would have to make some very tenuous assumptions to consider that a signal.

Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by tshaddox on Thursday October 08, 2020 @07:08PM (#24724919)
It's probably not a great signal for anything. How many Coinbase employees leave the company in an average month? And how much did this severance offer cause would-be future departures to cluster in October to take advantage of the payout?
Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by jiuahweruihawi on Friday October 09, 2020 @06:03PM (#24734877)
> I think that says nothing of a persons political views

Rubbish - we all know what type of political activism is tearing these companies apart and we all know what political views are the only ones that can be safely expressed.

Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by lazyasciiart on Thursday October 08, 2020 @03:47PM (#24723065)
Indifference to politics is a political view.
Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by dlivingston on Thursday October 08, 2020 @03:56PM (#24723176)
No, it is not. Politics apathy is present across all races, all classes, all genders.

Those who are politically possessed like to claim that “everything is politics” and that “it’s a privilege to not care about politics”, but every Hispanic and Filipino immigrant I’ve known (which is not a negligible number) care about family, hard work, and stability: not politics.

Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by colinmhayes on Thursday October 08, 2020 @05:42PM (#24724229)
I don't see how this refutes anything. Plenty of people from all races, classes, and genders make the political decision to avoid politics.
Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by throwaway4715 on Thursday October 08, 2020 @04:01PM (#24723235)
How does one ensure "stability" without getting involved in politics?
Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by username90 on Thursday October 08, 2020 @05:21PM (#24724069)
Getting involved in politics makes your life more unstable, which is why mostly privileged people engage in it. For example extremely few people from below median homes are politically active in USA, while home owners are among the most active. Ergo people are mostly politically active to defend their privileges and not to fix injustices.

I'm not sure how anyone can think that being politically active would make your life more stable.

Edit: An example of this is that black people are much less likely to vote than white people. Is this because black people support the status quo while white people want to change things? No, it is because black people don't have the time and energy to spare to vote. And no, this isn't about voting disenfranchisement, black people are less likely to vote even in very blue states.

Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by war1025 on Thursday October 08, 2020 @09:29PM (#24725801)
To quote a recent Tyler Childers song[1], by "tucking our tails as we try to abide"

Stability isn't about dominance, stability is about being uninteresting enough not to get your teeth kicked in.

[1] https://genius.com/Tyler-childers-long-violent-history-lyric...

Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by jimmygrapes on Thursday October 08, 2020 @05:19PM (#24724050)
Possibly by observing the actual changes implemented and interpreting them in their own context (i.e. IRS changes tax forms, but all the numbers stay the same when filling it out). Not being convinced that their fundamental right to attempt existence is threatened by imaginary what-ifs.
Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by tshaddox on Thursday October 08, 2020 @07:09PM (#24724925)
One way might be to stigmatize or ban discussion of politics.
Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by lazyasciiart on Thursday October 08, 2020 @04:23PM (#24723504)
I'm not sure why an opinion being commonly held across race/class/gender would make it not political.

Your statement that the immigrants you know care about x and y and not politics doesn't actually make sense in response to the concept 'everything is political'. You are responding from the perspective that politics means elections, or some similarly narrow set of topics. But 'everything is political' explicitly rejects that perspective. It means that a Filipino immigrant thinking about whether their uncle and cousins will be able to visit them is political because it's harder for them to get a visa than my English cousins. It means that a Hispanic immigrant talking to her friend in a restaurant after dropping the kids at school should not risk being detained by ICE because speaking Spanish makes some dropkick immigration officer decide they must be illegal immigrants, which happened in Montana.

Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by stale2002 on Thursday October 08, 2020 @05:18PM (#24724048)
If it is a political view, then it is such a common political view as to be banal.

A whole lot of people in the world are actively indifferent to politics.

Those apolitical people vastly outnumber all the hyper political "your with us or against us" group.

Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by kmonsen on Thursday October 08, 2020 @04:13PM (#24723373)
Staying in a job and supporting yourself and you family for a temporary time doing a normal job is not indifference. It is putting food on the table, perhaps literally.
Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by lazyasciiart on Thursday October 08, 2020 @04:24PM (#24723518)
I agree. I think you may have meant to address this to the comment that I was replying to.
Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by kmonsen on Thursday October 08, 2020 @05:21PM (#24724071)
I misunderstood you, but I probably read it wrong. Super tired today. Thank you for clarifying.
Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by BurningFrog on Thursday October 08, 2020 @03:43PM (#24723020)
And so the sorting into apolitical and leftist companies can begin!

It's probably for the best.

Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by arawnx on Thursday October 08, 2020 @03:55PM (#24723161)
Isn't it interesting that the crowd fighting for liberation & equity are mysteriously up against... the apolitical crowd? When the dichotomy is ethical realism vs. pragmatism, you have to ask yourself who's actually operating like a religion, who's actually a dogmatist in liberator's clothing.
Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by booleandilemma on Thursday October 08, 2020 @06:28PM (#24724610)
Nah. I’m one of the “apolitical” crowd. I have all sorts of weird, controversial opinions, but I simply leave them at the door and do the job I’m paid to do.
Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by tayo42 on Friday October 09, 2020 @12:26AM (#24726817)
What if that job conflicts with your opinions or morals?
Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by AgentME on Thursday October 08, 2020 @08:33PM (#24725504)
Most people don't worry about all aspects of the world's problems, and many people find themselves convinced that the status quo is more comfortable than the alternative. It's not at all surprising to me that a lot of political issues would have a "thought about it, realized the problems, and trying to fix it" position and a "apolitical, don't like thinking about it, don't want to consider changes to the status quo" position that end up butting heads. I don't see how you can go from that to "anyone arguing with 'apolitical' people is following a religion". (Obviously there are bad variants of this scenario like where someone misidentifies a problem or misidentifies the fix, but that doesn't seem necessarily like religious thinking either.)
Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by arawnx on Thursday October 08, 2020 @09:52PM (#24725933)
This is nonsense. There is no "the alternative;" there are no "apolitical" people. This is a circumstance of organizations, for whom being apolitical is the best way to alienate the fewest people. However, if you do indeed believe you have objective truth in your nonsensical dogmatic worldview, then hypothetically you'd be countered by somebody with a contrary truth. However this does not happen. The only opposition that these dogmatists get is from the new ethical relativists, i.e. people who advocate for apolitical organizations.
Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by schoen on Thursday October 08, 2020 @11:06PM (#24726345)
[I wrote a super-long reply and then realized that I had interpreted your view exactly backwards. Sorry!]
Re:A follow up to Coinbase being a mission focused company by muyuu on Friday October 09, 2020 @05:10AM (#24728131)
Not really. People default to not leaving a job with an impending recession and possibly the worst crisis in a century looming.

Taking the package can be seen as a strong stance, not taking it... not really.