Eddie Van Halen has died

Re:Eddie Van Halen has died by oxymoran on Tuesday October 06, 2020 @04:31PM (#24702026)

That’s like comparing a turn table used for DJ’ing to a record player used to just listen to records. Completely different application, accessories, and technique.

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Re:Eddie Van Halen has died by jjulius on Tuesday October 06, 2020 @04:55PM (#24702240)

Not really. The patent just takes the guitar and stabilizes it in a horizontal position, instead of a vertical position, allowing you to do something different with the same instrument. Nothing about the guitar itself changes whatsoever, but the orientation provides for the guitar to be used differently.

The better analogy would be, say, if you took an SL-1200 (a turntable manufactured for DJ'ing) and it rotated it "battle style" - same instrument, same accessories, but a different orientation resulting in a fundamentally different use of the device.

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Re:Eddie Van Halen has died by crmd on Tuesday October 06, 2020 @05:12PM (#24702375)

I’m not a fan of battle style but is it really fundamentally different? Eddie’s patent is more like rotating the deck about the z axis and holding it like a guitar. Which would be pretty cool and ridiculous come to think of it :-)

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Re:Eddie Van Halen has died by munificent on Tuesday October 06, 2020 @05:38PM (#24702590)

> I’m not a fan of battle style but is it really fundamentally different?

It gets the tone arm out of the way, which is what makes scratching a lot more feasible.

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Re:Eddie Van Halen has died by jjulius on Tuesday October 06, 2020 @05:50PM (#24702711)

That, and the footprint of a setup is reduced when decks are placed battle style. This is important because turntablism requires a lot of very quick manipulation of both decks and mixer, and it's easier to do this if everything is a lot more compact.

That's also why you typically see turntablists using a simple, small two-channel mixer while other DJs tend to employ wider, bulkier 4+-channel mixers.

To OP's point I could've maybe dropped the word "fundamentally" in my post because at the end of the day the fundamentals remain the same, as do the fundamentals of the guitar in the patent vs regular use.

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Re:Eddie Van Halen has died by paljasma on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @08:14AM (#24707406)

It is possible to scratch the sl-1200/sl-1210 at 90 degree angle and at 180 degree angle, by Dj Marky:

https://youtu.be/wA5b_AOjrI8 https://youtu.be/6z63irhX6Qs

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Re:Eddie Van Halen has died by mhh__ on Tuesday October 06, 2020 @04:43PM (#24702143)

Perhaps, but modern decks have lots of features that record players don't have like effects and EQ. In this case the patented device is basically played in the same way (or can be) just in a different place. It's intended to be for tapping but that's a common pedal steel technique

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Re:Eddie Van Halen has died by caseyohara on Tuesday October 06, 2020 @05:14PM (#24702405)

This is really pedantic, but even in a modern DJ setup the effects and EQ are part of the mixer, not the turntable. The mixer is separate from the turntables, it's the thing with the knobs and faders usually between two turntables.

Even modern DJ turntables are still very, very basic: https://www.technics.com/us/products/dj-series/direct-drive-... They are just more rugged than your everyday home listening record player.

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Re:Eddie Van Halen has died by vict00ms on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @09:31AM (#24707968)

Your pedantry is outdated: there are Serato-compatible decks that have MIDI pads built into them, not everything is trying to mimic the SL-1200s aesthetic these days.

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Re:Eddie Van Halen has died by lillesvin on Tuesday October 06, 2020 @05:33PM (#24702551)

> It's intended to be for tapping but that's a common pedal steel technique

I have no idea about how to play pedal steel (but I do play guitar), I thought the string action was way too high on a pedal/lap steel steel to be able to tap on it?

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Re:Eddie Van Halen has died by beaugunderson on Tuesday October 06, 2020 @08:40PM (#24704137)

Correct, the action on a pedal steel is very high (so high that you'd probably break strings if you managed to bend one to the "fretboard") and played with a bar.

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Re:Eddie Van Halen has died by mhh__ on Tuesday October 06, 2020 @08:06PM (#24703922)

I don't own one but I have done some tapping on one in the back of a music shop, so you might be right on average?

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Re:Eddie Van Halen has died by lilSebastian on Tuesday October 06, 2020 @05:17PM (#24702417)

Decks have neither of the examples you claim. Are you confusing an deck with a mixer, sometimes referred to as a mixing desk (though incorrectly)?

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Re:Eddie Van Halen has died by mhh__ on Tuesday October 06, 2020 @06:00PM (#24702800)

https://www.pioneerdj.com/en-gb/product/controller/ddj-400/b...

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Re:Eddie Van Halen has died by caseyohara on Tuesday October 06, 2020 @06:10PM (#24702910)

That's not a record player though, that's a DJ controller. Very different.

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Re:Eddie Van Halen has died by mhh__ on Tuesday October 06, 2020 @08:05PM (#24703920)

The parent comment was comparing DJ equipment to a record player (to this patent), which I feel is a poor example because modern DJ equipment almost always has different equipment too rather even if you could technically do it with a fader and some record players (as in at a gig, I'm aware people still mix on vinyl - pretentious as it can be).

The patented guitar thing is literally played the same way but in a different place, which I think should really be considered prior art unless the fashion aspect is considered rather than purely functionality.

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Re:Eddie Van Halen has died by quinndiggity on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @12:42AM (#24705376)

I think part of the reason people are chiming in on the distinction is that a controller is comparable to a mouse for a computer; a controller requires something else for any functionality, at which point you're comparing a general computing device that can do anything to a much more restricted special use device

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Re:Eddie Van Halen has died by quinndiggity on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @12:35AM (#24705344)

your comment said "decks" though - the ddj1000 is _closer_ to decks, but it's still a controller.

decks, you're thinking (some examples):

cdj350 cdj400 cdj800 cdj850 cdj900 cdj1000 cdj2000 xdj1000 etc

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Re:Eddie Van Halen has died by quinndiggity on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @12:33AM (#24705332)

this guy mixes

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Re:Eddie Van Halen has died by sneak on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @06:54AM (#24706996)

I don’t think that’s true at all. The standard DJ turntable (SL-1200/1210) has no specific features for DJing. I use the exact same ones for “just listen[ing] to records”.

Can’t speak to guitars or pedal steel, though.

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Re:Eddie Van Halen has died by leptons on Tuesday October 06, 2020 @06:22PM (#24703057)

The analogy does not hold up. There are quite a lot of differences between a "pedal steel" guitar, and an electric guitar. First, electric guitars do not have pedals. Pedal steel guitars do not have a resonating wood body. They produce very different sounds in very different ways.

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Re:Eddie Van Halen has died by gumby on Tuesday October 06, 2020 @06:48PM (#24703288)

Of course they do but the description described "techniques"; he's talking about a horizontal guitar play style.

As my comment said I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the patent itself (and really the claims are the thing) just saying that that part of the description is probably wrong. And that the patent system doesn't care.

FWIW all the pedal steel guitars I've ever seen are in fact electric guitars... but I know what you meant.

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Re:Eddie Van Halen has died by hanklazard on Tuesday October 06, 2020 @08:19PM (#24704014)

From the image, it looks like it’s intended to be used specifically for two-handed tapping, which was made famous by Van Halen and not commonly used (or at all) in pedal steel playing. Not sure if that would be unique enough to qualify for patent or not.

https://youtu.be/z_lwocmL9dQ

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Re:Eddie Van Halen has died by Exmoor on Tuesday October 06, 2020 @10:46PM (#24704852)

To my knowledge, steel guitars typically don't even have frets, so it would be essentially impossible.

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Re:Eddie Van Halen has died by sheriff on Tuesday October 06, 2020 @09:05PM (#24704270)

I play both guitar and pedal steel. The tapping techniques that would be used on a horizontal 6-string guitar would be impractical on a steel guitar (lap or pedal) because the action is too high and there are no frets.

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Re:Eddie Van Halen has died by sosborn on Tuesday October 06, 2020 @05:23PM (#24702470)

To be pedantic, Pedal Steels are supported by legs like a table. You are probably thinking of lap steels. When played standing up, they are usually supported just by repositioning the strap.

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Re:Eddie Van Halen has died by gumby on Tuesday October 06, 2020 @07:04PM (#24703463)

An even better example I don't know why I spaced on it.

Not that I'm complaining he was given a patent.

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Re:Eddie Van Halen has died by beaugunderson on Tuesday October 06, 2020 @08:42PM (#24704146)

Eddie was a tapper, which is why this is innovative (not having to use your thumb to stabilize the neck opens up greater range of motion for tapping with the fingers). Very different method than pedal steel, which is always barred.

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Re:Eddie Van Halen has died by adrianmonk on Tuesday October 06, 2020 @07:24PM (#24703641)

Or you can just sit in a chair and stick a regular guitar in your lap, like lots of people have done.

For example, Jeff Healey: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwgOUzodS6E&t=2m25s

(Not trying to turn this into a competition, by the way. His style definitely seems like it was influenced by Van Halen.)

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Re:Eddie Van Halen has died by WalterSear on Tuesday October 06, 2020 @09:09PM (#24704292)

Or you could just play a stick. https://stick.com

Fwiw, I would be surprised if Eddie Van Halen was not aware of the instrument, since they were invented in Southern California ~8 years before the release of "Van Halen".

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Re:Eddie Van Halen has died by tsimionescu on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @03:51AM (#24706168)

Unfortunately that site is using TLS 1.0/1.1 and won't open in modern Firefox...

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Re:Eddie Van Halen has died by uberdru on Tuesday October 06, 2020 @04:44PM (#24702151)

That would be Junior Brown's patent. . .

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