Re:What about Fair Use? The Gaga Saga
by RyanMcGreal on Wednesday April 20, 2011 @04:44PM
(#2468303)
It's not an issue of fair use. FTA:
> My parodies have always fallen under what the courts call "fair use," and this one was no different, legally allowing me to record and release it without permission. But it has always been my personal policy to get the consent of the original artist before including my parodies on any album, so of course I will respect Gaga’s wishes.
This is a story about Lady Gaga, not intellectual property law.
Re:What about Fair Use? The Gaga Saga
by city41 on Wednesday April 20, 2011 @05:05PM
(#2468375)
How is it any different then to upload the song to YouTube? In today's atmosphere it'd probably get more exposure and listens to on YouTube than on his album.
Re:What about Fair Use? The Gaga Saga
by city41 on Wednesday April 20, 2011 @05:23PM
(#2468437)
Is money the issue here? He said he'd donate all proceeds from the song to the Human Rights Campaign. It seems more Lady Gaga was offended by the parody, and being on YouTube means she'll still be offended by it (probably more so as this controversy gains traction, this will probably be Al's most listened to single in some time)
Re:What about Fair Use? The Gaga Saga
by rhizome on Wednesday April 20, 2011 @06:55PM
(#2468737)
It's pretty much Coolio and "Amish Paradise" all over again. Al is a nice guy, asks if the artist minds even though he doesn't have to, and the artist then chooses whether to be a ponce or not.
Re:What about Fair Use? The Gaga Saga
by petercooper on Wednesday April 20, 2011 @05:17PM
(#2468416)
Don't immediately assume that Gaga didn't want this to be released. I suspect she knows full well that refusing someone like Weird Al will result in more press (negative or otherwise) and more attention for both of them - the good old Streisand effect coupled with reverse psychology. Despite enjoying Weird Al in the past, I haven't listened to any of his new tracks in years but I've heard this one now..
It'd only take Gaga to 'conveniently' change her mind in a few days and the Internet hype machine could have done its job, promoted Al's album, promoted her image yet more, and everyone's happy.
I'm not buying the "the manager didn't pass it on" line - that's politics. Either way, Gaga now looks good, the video has 10 honors on YouTube, much discussion took place which helped both artists out.. everyone's happy.
Re:What about Fair Use? The Gaga Saga
by Kylekramer on Wednesday April 20, 2011 @04:42PM
(#2468290)
It is interesting. I respect Al's long held stance not to do parodies without the artist's consent while acknowledging that he is legally within his rights to do so. But I also don't think it is really that surprising that Gaga would want to actually hear the song rather than just give the go ahead based on lyrics. Anyone who has been online for any amount of time knows that the written word comes off a lot different than spoken/sung. And it is actually not that surprising that she wouldn't consent, considering it is fairly harsh in calling the song a Madonna ripoff and calling her persona fake and manufactured simply to take money from her fans. It is a pretty big anomaly given Al's history, I can't recall anytime he has really gone after the artist he is parodying before.
Al is being a bit disingenuous with the whole "I respect the artist's wishes", but then releasing the song and banking on the Streisand effect to do its magic. You can call her out on screwing you over, but don't play like you don't know what you are doing.
Re:What about Fair Use? The Gaga Saga
by narkee on Wednesday April 20, 2011 @04:56PM
(#2468341)
What added information would she have gotten from hearing the song? Given the fact that his songs are lyrical parodies, the only substantial difference between her song and his are the words.
On what grounds would she reject the song, but be ok with the lyrics? Because by asking him to sing it she's basically said "I'm ok with the words. But I might not be ok with the delivery."
Re:What about Fair Use? The Gaga Saga
by hugh3 on Wednesday April 20, 2011 @05:21PM
(#2468432)
On what grounds would she reject the song, but be ok with the lyrics? Because by asking him to sing it she's basically said "I'm ok with the words. But I might not be ok with the delivery."
Delivery can make the difference between affectionate parody and harsh parody.
Most of Weird Al's songs don't really make fun of the original performer. Most of 'em are really about food, or surgeons, or the Amish, or the Beverley Hillbillies. Only a couple of 'em actually target the perceived flaws of the actual singer (e.g. his version of "Smells Like Teen Spirit" which makes fun of Kurt Cobain's somewhat incomprehensible drawl).
Re:What about Fair Use? The Gaga Saga
by jtheory on Wednesday April 20, 2011 @06:14PM
(#2468613)
I haven't listened to any Weird Al in a decade or so, but I listened to this one, and his delivery was exactly the same as it always was. It's extremely predictable; reading the lyrics and having any familiarity with his parodies at all should have been enough.
This song did strike me as a little more critical than most of what I remember (though Smells Like Nirvana did come to mind), but hey, that's obvious from the lyrics. I wouldn't fault her for saying no at that point; instead she refused to respond until he'd done the recording.
So I agree with Al, it was a stupid demand to make (especially considering that she should know that recording a song isn't cheap), and Al's reaction isn't really about the money; it's about punishing her for either thoughtlessness or meanness, and also a bit about getting a bit of press for himself.
I suppose I'm not terribly impressed with either of them.
Re:What about Fair Use? The Gaga Saga
by afterburner on Wednesday April 20, 2011 @10:51PM
(#2469279)
The lyrics are not necessarily critical... you could argue they are meant to celebrate Gaga's antics ("I'm not crazy... I perform this way"). But the possibility is there of course.
Re:What about Fair Use? The Gaga Saga
by chc on Wednesday April 20, 2011 @04:57PM
(#2468343)
I can't imagine what you mean. Here is what she knew:
1. The lyrics to the song
2. The music to the song
3. What Al sounds like when he sings
What about the actual track could be "a lot different" from the information she already had, to the degree that it would lead her to withhold approval she would otherwise have granted?
Re:What about Fair Use? The Gaga Saga
by qq66 on Wednesday April 20, 2011 @05:27PM
(#2468453)
It may be that the request didn't make it to Lady Gaga until the full song was sent over.
Think about it from the assistant's point of view, who reports to Lady Gaga. He doesn't want to take something to Lady Gaga and have her say, "Mmmm.... I don't know" and have the issue unresolved. Meanwhile, it costs none of his own effort to ask Weird Al to send over the recorded song, which he can then take to Lady Gaga in its entirety.
Re:What about Fair Use? The Gaga Saga
by kamyulam on Wednesday April 20, 2011 @05:20PM
(#2468428)
I thought the same thing as you at first, but perhaps Gaga might have taken issue with the short sound clip from Madonna's "Express Yourself" (at 1:58 in Weird Al's version). I think Gaga has been accused of copying "Express Yourself" and Weird Al is poking fun at that issue.
Re:What about Fair Use? The Gaga Saga
by zinkem on Wednesday April 20, 2011 @07:22PM
(#2468819)
People who work in the music production see a lot wider spaces inbetween subtle variations in sound than most of us. There are as many ways to construct a song as there are to construct a program, even if you know the "general idea."
Re:What about Fair Use? The Gaga Saga
by chc on Wednesday April 20, 2011 @09:45PM
(#2469142)
Yes, but how does any of that affect the decision of "Yes, it's OK for Al to make this comedy song"? He's not asking her to put her name on it or positively review it — just to say she doesn't mind him doing it. So I don't see how "subtle variations" make any difference. As he said, this was the first time he'd encountered this in many decades of making parodies, so if you're implying that this is just how musicians work, you're wrong.
Re:What about Fair Use? The Gaga Saga
by eli on Wednesday April 20, 2011 @04:35PM
(#2468257)
Well, if you read the whole post, this doesn't actually have much to do with Fair Use. It's Al's personal policy (and I think it's an admirable one) of getting artists' permission.
Though considering he already posted the song online, presumably against Lady GaGa's wishes, I don't really get why he doesn't just go ahead and put it on the album as well. Perhaps not having artist permission makes the label's lawyers nervous.
Re:What about Fair Use? The Gaga Saga
by panacea on Wednesday April 20, 2011 @06:33PM
(#2468664)
I assume most people here have various internet 'water-coolers' that they hang out on. I'm slightly bemused as to why this is apparently HN discussion fodder.
Re:What about Fair Use? The Gaga Saga
by 18pfsmt on Wednesday April 20, 2011 @08:33PM
(#2468999)
In my case (and I suspect most others) it is because the Copyright Cartel seems intent on pushing private privileges that were given during a time in which it made sense and they continue to pursue such privileges to the detriment of the rights of the people and the progress. Anything with Fair Use in the title is going to draw interest from some of us.
Re:What about Fair Use? The Gaga Saga
by ryanwaggoner on Wednesday April 20, 2011 @09:03PM
(#2469052)
How the #%*& is this near the top of the front page of Hacker News?!? This is an incredibly shallow celebrity squabble story. It's not about fair use, and it would be on the slim side of interesting even if it was.
Re:What about Fair Use? The Gaga Saga
by anthonycerra on Wednesday April 20, 2011 @07:28PM
(#2468833)
What's most interesting to me about this piece is everything except for the Gaga Drama itself.
20 years ago if you would have told someone that it takes 8 weeks to get a release date and a huge chunk of money/time to cut a track, probably no one would be impressed. If you also said "We wrote, recorded and published (to a few million people) within a few days" people would have gone nuts and thought you were Michael Jackson. How on earth could you get it done so fast? But today kids on are making music that rivals the quality of the MP3 Al posted to Youtube for peanuts... and they're the amateurs! That's what amazes me. You can make similar quality music and get exposure more quickly and to more people than signed artists and you're still considered the amateur.
Also very interesting is Al's sense of ethics. Great guy.
Re:What about Fair Use? The Gaga Saga
by bricestacey on Wednesday April 20, 2011 @07:45PM
(#2468865)
It's a shame this article was upvoted so much with an editorialized title that is blatantly misleading and out of context. And the number of comments by people who didn't even read the article is disappointing. This is page 6 material, not for HN. Or is this what HN is now?
Re:What about Fair Use? The Gaga Saga
by Sukotto on Wednesday April 20, 2011 @04:36PM
(#2468262)
I wonder if he's pissed enough to add her to the Interview portion of his live show.
Weird Al has a jumbotron in his live show where he plays film clips and fake interviews during his (many) costume changes.
The "interviews" are scenes of him asking questions, cut with replies that, say, Madonna, gave during other (real) interviews. The result makes the celebrity look like a complete idiot.
Re:What about Fair Use? The Gaga Saga
by zem on Wednesday April 20, 2011 @05:36PM
(#2468480)
Does anyone else feel that this song really isn't top-notch Yankovic? It's okay, but if I heard it on an album I'd have thought it was one of the tail-end songs; I'm boggled to think that he wanted this to be the lead single in his new album.
Re:What about Fair Use? The Gaga Saga
by zootm on Wednesday April 20, 2011 @07:32PM
(#2468840)
As well as him feeling this is strong, I think he probably puts a lot of weight on the public popularity of the song he's parodying when choosing a "lead" single. I suspect marketing parodies is at least as much dictated by the popularity and timeliness of the choice of source as the actual parody itself.
Re:What about Fair Use? The Gaga Saga
by cynicalkane on Wednesday April 20, 2011 @05:30PM
(#2468458)
This really reminds me of the common tale of a hacker working on contract, with the employer constantly promising "Don't worry, you'll be paid later", but never in fact planning to pay.
Has Weird Al learned what every hacker should know? Don't commit yourself to work based on the maybes of someone you have no reason to trust.
Re:What about Fair Use? The Gaga Saga
by Groxx on Wednesday April 20, 2011 @07:30PM
(#2468836)
No minified links, please. If it's a long link, it'll be displayed truncated automatically, but that way everyone sees the entire link, and its existence isn't bound to site / service X.
> My parodies have always fallen under what the courts call "fair use," and this one was no different, legally allowing me to record and release it without permission. But it has always been my personal policy to get the consent of the original artist before including my parodies on any album, so of course I will respect Gaga’s wishes.
This is a story about Lady Gaga, not intellectual property law.
It'd only take Gaga to 'conveniently' change her mind in a few days and the Internet hype machine could have done its job, promoted Al's album, promoted her image yet more, and everyone's happy.
I'm not buying the "the manager didn't pass it on" line - that's politics. Either way, Gaga now looks good, the video has 10 honors on YouTube, much discussion took place which helped both artists out.. everyone's happy.
Al is being a bit disingenuous with the whole "I respect the artist's wishes", but then releasing the song and banking on the Streisand effect to do its magic. You can call her out on screwing you over, but don't play like you don't know what you are doing.
On what grounds would she reject the song, but be ok with the lyrics? Because by asking him to sing it she's basically said "I'm ok with the words. But I might not be ok with the delivery."
Delivery can make the difference between affectionate parody and harsh parody.
Most of Weird Al's songs don't really make fun of the original performer. Most of 'em are really about food, or surgeons, or the Amish, or the Beverley Hillbillies. Only a couple of 'em actually target the perceived flaws of the actual singer (e.g. his version of "Smells Like Teen Spirit" which makes fun of Kurt Cobain's somewhat incomprehensible drawl).
This song did strike me as a little more critical than most of what I remember (though Smells Like Nirvana did come to mind), but hey, that's obvious from the lyrics. I wouldn't fault her for saying no at that point; instead she refused to respond until he'd done the recording.
So I agree with Al, it was a stupid demand to make (especially considering that she should know that recording a song isn't cheap), and Al's reaction isn't really about the money; it's about punishing her for either thoughtlessness or meanness, and also a bit about getting a bit of press for himself.
I suppose I'm not terribly impressed with either of them.
1. The lyrics to the song
2. The music to the song
3. What Al sounds like when he sings
What about the actual track could be "a lot different" from the information she already had, to the degree that it would lead her to withhold approval she would otherwise have granted?
Think about it from the assistant's point of view, who reports to Lady Gaga. He doesn't want to take something to Lady Gaga and have her say, "Mmmm.... I don't know" and have the issue unresolved. Meanwhile, it costs none of his own effort to ask Weird Al to send over the recorded song, which he can then take to Lady Gaga in its entirety.
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/music/2011/04/20/20...
Though considering he already posted the song online, presumably against Lady GaGa's wishes, I don't really get why he doesn't just go ahead and put it on the album as well. Perhaps not having artist permission makes the label's lawyers nervous.
http://www.tmz.com/2011/04/20/weird-al-yankovic-lady-gaga-re...
Flagged, but I'm still depressed.
20 years ago if you would have told someone that it takes 8 weeks to get a release date and a huge chunk of money/time to cut a track, probably no one would be impressed. If you also said "We wrote, recorded and published (to a few million people) within a few days" people would have gone nuts and thought you were Michael Jackson. How on earth could you get it done so fast? But today kids on are making music that rivals the quality of the MP3 Al posted to Youtube for peanuts... and they're the amateurs! That's what amazes me. You can make similar quality music and get exposure more quickly and to more people than signed artists and you're still considered the amateur.
Also very interesting is Al's sense of ethics. Great guy.
Weird Al has a jumbotron in his live show where he plays film clips and fake interviews during his (many) costume changes.
The "interviews" are scenes of him asking questions, cut with replies that, say, Madonna, gave during other (real) interviews. The result makes the celebrity look like a complete idiot.
"UPDATE: Lady Gaga has approved the parody!!! Album release information coming soon!"
Apparently, the manager was making decsions without actually consulting her. Typical PHB from my experience. I'd fire the guy.
http://alyankovic.wordpress.com/2011/04/20/gaga-update/
Edit: link
And Weird Al's lyrics are pretty funny ....
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campbell_v._Acuff-Rose_Music,_I....
Has Weird Al learned what every hacker should know? Don't commit yourself to work based on the maybes of someone you have no reason to trust.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/allsongs/2011/04/20/135582519/crisi...
http://www.billboard.com/news/lady-gaga-rebecca-black-is-a-g... in this case.