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Re:What is the best dumb TV? by moksly on Saturday October 03, 2020 @03:01AM (#24670184)
My microwave has a wheel to turn the timer, a wheel to set the WATT, a stop button and a start button. If you press the start button it’ll automatically run for 30 seconds, if you press it again it’ll add another 30 seconds to the current run. It took me maybe 4 years of owning it before I learned of the start button feature. Not sure what the hell people are doing with microwaves that connect to the internet, but I sure as hell like mine simple enough for me to operate it. A general theme with most of my kitchen/home appliances really. If something doesn’t work out of the box, or if it has a gazillion “smart” features, then it’s likely just not for me.

A tad ironic to some people, I know. I work in public sector digitisation after all, we’re working with cutting edge tech every day, to help make the lives of citizens easier. Like how to distribute medicine so people with dementia actually take it. So many people naturally assume I’m a gadget person, and in fact a lot of my colleagues are, but I just don’t get why you’d want your TV to be “smart“.

So I’ll happily enforce your message about simple Designs.

Re:What is the best dumb TV? by lb1lf on Saturday October 03, 2020 @04:19AM (#24670470)
-AOL. I work in automation&controls in the oil industry, and my customers are always puzzled when I start to whittle away at the features suggested, rather than adding to them; my mantra being that 'If it isn't there, it cannot fail.'

My experience echoes yours - I keep my appliances as simple as possible, both at home and professionally.

Add complexity wherever you have to, not wherever you want to.

Re:What is the best dumb TV? by toomanybeersies on Sunday October 04, 2020 @01:46AM (#24676779)
No code runs faster than no code.

No code has fewer bugs than no code.

No code uses less memory than no code.

No code is easier to understand than no code.

Re:What is the best dumb TV? by jiggawatts on Saturday October 03, 2020 @05:40AM (#24670834)
I work in the IT systems integration industry, and I have unironically used the phrase "fewer moving parts" when describing the benefits of my preferred architectures.
Re:What is the best dumb TV? by tuatoru on Monday October 05, 2020 @05:17PM (#24692169)
This could be interpreted either way in this context.

So, in the context of microwaves, does this mean you prefer software-controlled ovens instead of simpler ones with mechanical timers (which have lots of moving parts), or the reverse?

Re:What is the best dumb TV? by ethbr0 on Saturday October 03, 2020 @09:37AM (#24672005)
If no one attempts to remove features, bad features make it into the product, adding complexity and sapping time from good features.

If someone attempts to remove a good feature, someone on the team should be able to successfully argue for it in 3-5 sentences.

Re:What is the best dumb TV? by narwally on Saturday October 03, 2020 @12:10PM (#24672922)
I buy smart tvs because they have ads on them, which makes the initial purchase price cheaper. Then I just connect it to my media server and never bother with the smart features.
Re:What is the best dumb TV? by chihuahua on Saturday October 03, 2020 @09:25PM (#24675965)
Exactly. If you don't connect your smart TV to your home Wifi network, it can't connect to anything and exfiltrate your data. I doubt manufacturers are secretly putting LTE modems inside TVs.
Re:What is the best dumb TV? by shyn3 on Sunday October 04, 2020 @10:49AM (#24679444)
This is not true. It connects to open wireless and updates your software and probably ads. There was a post on here a while ago about it which I can't find from a preliminary search.
Re:What is the best dumb TV? by textman on Sunday October 04, 2020 @01:20PM (#24680625)
Is this the post you refer to? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21002745
Re:What is the best dumb TV? by shyn3 on Monday October 05, 2020 @06:15PM (#24692648)
Yes there is a reply that takes you a reddit comment [1]. However now it appears as though that commenter deleted their account so I don't know the validity.

https://www.reddit.com/r/security/comments/bpjky4/worried_ab...

Re:What is the best dumb TV? by ascar on Saturday October 03, 2020 @07:35AM (#24671304)
I want a smart TV so I can access Netflix, Amazon Prime, Disney+ etc. right from the TV and don't need a separate device for it.

Many people suggest buying a dumb tv and then an apple tv. The problem is, now I have two devices and instead of trusting [TV manufacturer] I have to trust Apple. I don't see a big gain in it and also don't consider Apple to be especially trustworthy. [TV manufacturer] should just sell me a smart tv without customer hostile "features".

Re:What is the best dumb TV? by strawberrypuree on Saturday October 03, 2020 @02:16PM (#24673729)
Apple TV doesn't include ads, and doesn't sell your viewing habits to third parties who create profiles of you. [0]

Your TV manufacturer does.

[0]https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/

Re:What is the best dumb TV? by tuatoru on Monday October 05, 2020 @05:20PM (#24692185)
Yet. You forgot "yet".

Apples shareholders will one day be keen to achieve the second trillion dollars on the company's valuation.

Re:What is the best dumb TV? by strawberrypuree on Wednesday October 07, 2020 @01:09PM (#24710330)
I'm not as pessimistic as all that, but I agree that vigilance is necessary. The good thing about going with the external box solution is that as if the company doesn't align with your values on this issue, you can unplug it and install something else. If that something else exists, of course.
Re:What is the best dumb TV? by jon-wood on Saturday October 03, 2020 @08:05AM (#24671412)
With a standalone smart box connected via HDMI if it becomes obsolete, or you want to use different software it’s just that which needs replacing. With a smart TV the entire display has to be replaced, to no real benefit.
Re:What is the best dumb TV? by Mindwipe on Sunday October 04, 2020 @04:18AM (#24677271)
Not really. Why not just use the TV until it becomes obsolete then buy a box if you have to?
Re:What is the best dumb TV? by patrickk on Sunday October 04, 2020 @06:03AM (#24677696)
Often the TV box apps run better, gets obsoleted much more slowly and you can customise it much more easily than your smart TV (e.g. you are out of options if your TV doesn't support some new streaming service).

I have a random, no-name Android TV box and it's one of the best value for money devices I've gotten in years - covers every single streaming service, has IPTV, web browser, and any other conceivable option you'd want in a TV box. You can add a VPN trivially, use it as a music client for LMS....and so on. Plus it doesn't have unblockable ads covering half the screen like recent Samsung TVs.

Re:What is the best dumb TV? by ryukafalz on Saturday October 03, 2020 @09:15AM (#24671847)
> [TV manufacturer] should just sell me a smart tv without customer hostile "features".

Unfortunately there are basically zero TV manufacturers who will do this.

Re:What is the best dumb TV? by bsanr2 on Saturday October 03, 2020 @10:17AM (#24672219)
I think it would be extremely interesting if the thing that got tech nerds to get on board, politically, with the notion that a single company doesn't have to have a monopoly for consumers to be hurt by "market standards" was, uh, smart TVs with too many ads.
Re:What is the best dumb TV? by katbyte on Sunday October 04, 2020 @01:58AM (#24676821)
High end Sony sets seem to be pretty customer friendly
Re:What is the best dumb TV? by dkdk8283 on Monday October 05, 2020 @05:51AM (#24686106)
Commercial displays have no ads, but also typically ship with minimal software and fewer inputs.
Re:What is the best dumb TV? by kspacewalk2 on Saturday October 03, 2020 @03:01PM (#24673968)
>[TV manufacturer] should just sell me a smart tv without customer hostile "features".

The price will be much higher then. Right now, you're sold the tv at a discount (at a loss, I'm pretty sure) because the manufacturer will make money off you down the road by stealing and selling your data to advertisers. It's kind of like with social media (though to a lesser degree) - don't make the mistake of thinking of yourself exclusively as a customer. You're a product, too. Their advertising partners are the true customers.

Re:What is the best dumb TV? by ascar on Saturday October 03, 2020 @07:31PM (#24675457)
I somehow doubt that argument. My 65" smart TV cost about $2000. My advertisement worth as a user is how much? Maybe about $30 per year like a Facebook user [1] (which I would think is to high for Samsungs model)? That's $150 to $300 over the lifespan of the device. I don't consider these extra 15% sooo much higher. It's within the range of regular retail discounts.

[1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/234056/facebooks-average...

Re:What is the best dumb TV? by xmprt on Saturday October 03, 2020 @05:00AM (#24670636)
Tech can often make complex processes simpler but it can also make simple things complicated by adding too many unnecessary bells and whistles. That's how I feel about a lot of the IOT products coming out today.
Re:What is the best dumb TV? by justnotworthit on Saturday October 03, 2020 @07:57PM (#24675611)
End the torture: What's the make/model of the microwave?
Re:What is the best dumb TV? by robocat on Sunday October 04, 2020 @12:50AM (#24676594)
I bought a Breville with jogger knobs for power and time, just because I liked the UI. Most importantly they can be changed even while cooking.

I think this is the current revision: https://www.breville.com/us/en/products/microwaves/bmo850.ht...

It does have all the feature buttons, which are just inside the door, although I admit I have never used them.

Alternatively buy a really cheap microwave that just has two physical knobs.

Re:What is the best dumb TV? by natch on Sunday October 04, 2020 @09:02AM (#24678727)
Re:What is the best dumb TV? by natch on Sunday October 04, 2020 @09:04AM (#24678735)
A simpler UI is Sharp R21LCFS. Link elsewhere in thread.
Re:What is the best dumb TV? by bakuninsbart on Saturday October 03, 2020 @06:25AM (#24671010)
I don't own a microwave, but find routers to be one of the most frustrating machines to deal with. All communication is done via different lights either on/off or blinking, and none of it makes any sense. How much is a freaking display these days?
Re:What is the best dumb TV? by dwighttk on Saturday October 03, 2020 @08:20AM (#24671502)
I never look at my router’s lights. I use 192.168.0.1 or whatever to do stuff in the browser.

(There is actually an option on mine that lets me turn off all the lights. (Except the power on light, dang it!))

Re:What is the best dumb TV? by dkersten on Saturday October 03, 2020 @10:33AM (#24672313)
There are only two lights that matter to me: power and WAN. They let me see if there are problems that I can't do anything about through the browser UI. If there's no power, then obviously its a hardware problem and if there's no WAN then its an upstream problem that I cannot fix myself. All other lights are meaningless to me and I use the browser UI instead, like you.
Re:What is the best dumb TV? by fomine3 on Sunday October 04, 2020 @08:38PM (#24683486)
It's useful to quickly check whether the connection is 100BASE-TX or 1000BASE-T.
Re:What is the best dumb TV? by whatch on Saturday October 03, 2020 @07:30AM (#24671275)
I've just bought new xerox printer with wifi feature. No display, just couple of leds and buttons. After half an hour and numerous google searches I was able to use it over wifi, but only 2.4GHz. Spent another hour trying to set it up with 5GHz. Now it is connected via USB only and I am happy.
Re:What is the best dumb TV? by ajsnigrutin on Sunday October 04, 2020 @03:59AM (#24677210)
I have a router with a lcd display... I never use it (the display), because well.. it's a router, and it's hidden (literally) behind a couch.