~Michael Malice
Lots of places don't, and are also doing fine.
That's because that particular feature is orthogonal to any real issue.
When the problems in Detroit and LA subside maybe I would be with you on this point.
What if the student has a learning disability? In a smaller school, that will certainly take down the test scores - will three LD students ruin the school's reputation? How about people with down syndrome, for example?
What if the student requires major accommodations - for example, the student is quadriplegic? The big school systems currently take money from all students to help out with these expensive cases.
Will these private schools with vouchers be required to maintain the same standards as the public schools? For example, can a school discriminate via race or religion?
Most voucher advocates are really looking to take the easy students and dump the hard cases on a backstop underfunded public system. Then everyone will look at the public system and say, "see how much better the private system is!"
Because the private system does not take the hard cases.
Everything is a process of improvement overtime. The reality is, we don't have all the answers ever. What matter's is how much things are improving overtime. I don't see that with public schools.
I could easily ask you a ton of questions on how to fix Detroit or LA schools.
Allowing competition fixes a lot of problems.
US Public schools blow everyone else out of the water if you shave off the bottom 10%. The US problem with schooling is more and more a problem of equity. People need to understand that helping other kids isn't going to hurt their kids.
US taxpayers would rather throw money at prisons and police instead of education and social workers. I don't mean schools when I say education, I mean outreach to families and help getting them what they need.
Who is "everyone else?"
"US taxpayers would rather throw money at prisons and police instead of education and social workers."
Agreed. End the war on drugs and personal freedom. End the wars, bring every troop home, from everywhere. Cut the military budget.
"I mean outreach to families and help getting them what they need."
In 2019, we spend $90,960 per family of 4 on welfare. The money's there. Unaccountable bureaucracies waste money. This will never change.
Where is yours for that $90k BS. Sounds like a serious argument for just giving poor people cash.
Again, I don't know who you're referring to by "everyone else."
"Where is yours for that $90k BS."
Enjoy!
Federal Breakdown 2019 in Billions:
$59: EITC Refundable Tax Credits - https://www.usaspending.gov/federal_account/020-0906
$29: Child Tax Credit - https://www.usaspending.gov/federal_account/020-0922
$64: SNAP (Supplemental Nutrition Programs) - https://www.usaspending.gov/federal_account/012-3505
$51: Housing Assistance - https://www.hud.gov/sites/dfiles/CFO/documents/3%20-%20FY19C...
$57: SSI (Disabled, blind or senior citizens) - https://www.usaspending.gov/federal_account/028-0406
$31: Pell Grants - https://www.usaspending.gov/federal_account/091-0200
$16: Temporary Assistance for Needy Families - https://www.usaspending.gov/federal_account/075-1552
$23: Child Nutrition - https://www.usaspending.gov/federal_account/012-3539
$12: Head Start - https://www.acf.hhs.gov/about/budget
$5: Job Training - https://www.usaspending.gov/federal_account/016-0174 , https://www.usaspending.gov/federal_account/016-0181
$5: WIC (Women, Infants, and Children) - https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food-nutrition-assistance/wi...
$5: Child Care - https://www.usaspending.gov/federal_account/075-1550 , https://www.usaspending.gov/federal_account/075-1534 ,
$4: LIHEAP (Utility bill help) - https://liheapch.acf.hhs.gov/Funding/funding.htm
$1: Lifeline (phone payment help) - https://www.usac.org/wp-content/uploads/about/documents/annu... Page 8
$409: Medicade - https://www.usaspending.gov/federal_account/075-0512
Total: $771 billion
People below the poverty line in 2019: 33.9 million - https://www.statista.com/statistics/233138/number-of-people-...
$771 billion / 33.9 million below poverty citizens = $22,743
$22,743 * Family of 4 = $90,972
THIS IS JUST FEDERAL SPENDING AND DOES NOT INCLUDE STATE AND LOCAL SPENDING!
Public schools, are derived from the Prussian system, its optimized to create obedient workers, its the lowest common denominator in education.
Arguements of equality in public schools are out the window too when you compare the funding and quality between poor counties and wealthy ones.
Its especially unjust that parents paying for private education pay twice, for public and private.
Second, let's see what happens if we fund private and public schools equivalently. Class sizes of 10 don't happen by accident.
Paying for private education "twice" is just part of rich people paying for the society that enabled them to become and stay rich.
"Second, let's see what happens if we fund private and public schools equivalently."
Detroit get's $14k per student. Cost of living in Detroit is low and barely anyone who graduates is literate.
I don't think funding's the problem.
This is a great deal for the students because they enter the college of their choice with a better background than a typical student.
Society is disadvantaged when intelligent students aren't allowed to achieve their fullest potential. We need programs that allow students to independently work at their own pace. We'd have a ton more 15-16 year old's attending college.
There's so much room for improvement.
There is considerable reason to believe almost all variability in school performance is due to factors unrelated to the actual school itself (predominantly, the socioeconomic background and environment of the students and degree of parental involvement), which explains why limited scale efforts which require active parental choice to engage always perform better than the baseline, but scaling those up to be the baseline usually fails to have the same results. Better schools are just the schools attended by the students that would do best whatever school they were in.
So, if you aren't directing the solution at the things outside of schools that drive school outcomes, I don't expect you are going to solve any problem with the schools.
Just like remote learning, if I don't like K12, I can try another online school, same as I dump Netflix for Hulu. I'm not even geographically limited. If there is a teacher that specializes in teaching dyslexic students and I have a child that's dyslexic, I'm no longer limited that the teacher isn't in a school within 5-10 miles. The teacher can be in another state even technically as long as she's board certified in my state. There is also a geographic arbitrage advantage, if my school system doesn't pay teachers enough to live comfortably in my city, maybe the teachers can be hired where its cheaper to live. Or teach for NYC and live in rural NY state.
Like corrupt administrations that siphon funds needed to fix buildings teaming with cockroaches.
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2016...
We can postulate how a top down approach might work but these students will still be suffering while we sort and continually monitor (we won't) the system.
Involving market forces and allowing parents to have say in where their children will be educated puts the power in the most effective hands for change.
This claim could desparately use evidence.
Market forces improve conditions. Motivations are realigned to the incentive of the parent's satisfaction with their kid's education. Service improves when you have competition.
Don't know whatever happened to those kids, but I hope they're in prison or dead, or just living shitty lives. I doubt they ever got better.
But I saw fights that were much worse, fights that ended in bleeding, cracked ribs and concussions, thankfully there was hospital across the road. This was in a rural region high school, in the 90s, I can only imagine what its like in places with actual gangs, today, etc.
The worse part about it is, you tell the teachers, they do nothing substantial, then you're a snitch. If you do the one thing likely to solve the problem, which is fight back, you're punished, and now the cops are called and you're likely arrested. Some kids eventually snap, and parents wonder why school shootings are a thing.
The next time was in 5th grade in Texas (new kid again -- I was the weirdo from Seattle). Also harmless. We didn't even get suspended or put on detention in those days.
The next time was in the Army defending someone who was being bullied by a racist. That was scary for me because I was so angry I could have really hurt someone. Luckily, cooler heads intervened.
Growing up, I heard stories from cousins that went to public school in the Chicago area. Major fights everyday. Though they managed to stay out of harms way.
Back in Seattle, my son got suspended for play fighting in middle school (zero tolerance) but otherwise he made it out without getting into any fights -- it helped that he was/is very tall and a popular athlete.
Onetime when I picked him up after a dance there was a horrible fight where a large girl was beating the shit out of a smaller girl with 100s of kids whooping it up around them. Crazy time.
Plenty of more stories from his time in bad schools in South Seattle. Scenes out of a movie bad. Most people can't imagine the out-control violent environment that exists in some US public schools. Even in cities like Seattle.
I can't imagine how bad it could be for kids forced to go to bad schools in big cities like Baltimore, Philly, Chicago, LA, DC, and such.
"In Finland, where substantial physical activity is part of the school day, rates of ADHD are also very low. Meanwhile, in the U.S. children are asked to sit still for the majority of the day. Elementary school students often get only 15-20 minutes of recess a day, a far cry from the 60-90 minutes their parents had. Coincidentally, ADHD rates in the U.S. have gone up over the last 15 years. "
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisonescalante/2020/08/11/rese...
"Socialization", its like arguing people need food and then giving them dog food.
Given most modern school schedules, lack of recess, and lunch breaks being barely enough time to eat, I heard even what socialization does take place is being diminished.
School isn't the only and definitely not the best option for socialization.
At least in home school, they mostly learn socialization by and with adults, excluding extracurricular activities and co-ops.