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Re:Covid-19 in Iceland: Violated Isolation and Infected over... by arcticbull on Saturday September 26, 2020 @01:25PM (#24600504)
> ... likely to result in 2-16 deaths given case fatality rates in Iceland (0.5%) and globally (4%).

I can't believe people continue to use CFR for evaluating risk. It's a totally worthless metric, and now that we have serological studies, an approximation of the IFR is available. The IFR is somewhere around 0.5% plus or minus.

The disease is effectively the same the whole world over and is equally fatal the whole world over. The reason for an order of magnitude spread in CFR is because Iceland is testing everyone (hence approximating the actual fatality rate, IFR) whereas every other country is testing different groups.

Yes the fatality rate is 4% for people who walk into hospital hugely ill. This is a sampling bias. It's like saying skydiving is 99% fatal based on counting only people whose parachutes failed to deploy. Then presenting the risk as "anywhere between 0.001% and 99%."

It's about 0.5% across the whole population. Much lower for children (lower than the flu). About the same as the flu for 20s and 30s people, particularly healthy ones. It's much, much higher for old sick people (20-30% in a nursing home, for instance).

There's no way to say 2-16 deaths based on the 400 infected by multiplying 400 by 0.5%; it could be zero if the 400 infected were kids, and it could be 150 if the French folks did a tour of nursing homes.

[edit] 'just-juan-post' provided a link to a study indicating my figures are overstated and the fatality rates are probably half that. [1]

[1] https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-5352

Re:Covid-19 in Iceland: Violated Isolation and Infected over... by mr_woozy on Saturday September 26, 2020 @04:21PM (#24601795)
>The reason for an order of magnitude spread in CFR is because Iceland is testing everyone (hence approximating the actual fatality rate, IFR) whereas every other country is testing different groups.

We're not actually testing everyone here, it's a common repeated trope from international news but testing is readily available to all who want to and we test all inbound arrivals via the single airport (now we do, didn't before). They can either self quarantine for 14 days after that or get another test in 4-5 days.

Re:Covid-19 in Iceland: Violated Isolation and Infected over... by arcticbull on Saturday September 26, 2020 @06:04PM (#24602533)
Fair enough, although that wasn't really my point. The point I was making was about selection bias and methodologies leading to massive disparities between a number that we know should be the same the world over -- or at least within a range. Not within a couple orders of magnitude.

People are pointing to these "fatality rates" as though they're accurate, consistent and fair representations of the risk the disease poses to individuals. That's simply not the case. They're correct, but they're different and inconsistent.

Re:Covid-19 in Iceland: Violated Isolation and Infected over... by WarOnPrivacy on Saturday September 26, 2020 @02:01PM (#24600781)
(Not singling you out here) It's a bit unsettling to limit the risk discussions to death rates. It feels like no one is compiling stats on people who are exiting Covid with new, life altering disabilities.
Re:Covid-19 in Iceland: Violated Isolation and Infected over... by anoncake on Saturday September 26, 2020 @02:03PM (#24600802)
I've been waiting for evidence that this happens in non-neglible numbers for months.
Re:Covid-19 in Iceland: Violated Isolation and Infected over... by dredmorbius on Saturday September 26, 2020 @02:20PM (#24600931)
Wikipedia's Covid-19 article links to ongoing studies:

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-08-12/long-covid-what-is-it-wh...

https://www.webmd.com/lung/coronavirus-complications

From WebMD: "Some people -- about 1 in 6 -- will have complications, including some that are life-threatening."

From ITV: "a study by King's College London found an estimated 10% of people with the virus take at least three weeks to recover, with 250,000 people in the UK alone thought to experience symptoms for 30 days or more. Many of those experiencing long tail coronavirus were fit, active people whose lives have been completely turned upside down by the ongoing symptoms."

Re:Covid-19 in Iceland: Violated Isolation and Infected over... by anoncake on Tuesday September 29, 2020 @04:37PM (#24632668)
We are talking about disabilities, i.e. permanent (or at least long-lasting) and severe damage. Taking a few weeks to recover does not qualify.
Re:Covid-19 in Iceland: Violated Isolation and Infected over... by dehrmann on Saturday September 26, 2020 @03:02PM (#24601279)
I could end up being very wrong, but it's probably uncommon or else it'd surface somewhere other than support groups for those people and anecdotal accounts in local news stories. Enough celebrities and politicians have gotten it that if this were widespread, they'd be sounding the alarm en masse and we'd be hearing all about it.
Re:Covid-19 in Iceland: Violated Isolation and Infected over... by WarOnPrivacy on Saturday September 26, 2020 @03:45PM (#24601580)
Off the top of your head, do you recall any stories of "I had a bad case of Covid and am 100% now"?

I think there is an assumption that if you contract something that puts people in the ICU, you should expect your life to be permanently altered by it. I suspect that assumption is helping mute attempts to collect and quantify that data.

Re:Covid-19 in Iceland: Violated Isolation and Infected over... by arcticbull on Saturday September 26, 2020 @08:59PM (#24603373)
Pretty much anything will put someone into the ICU in the right circumstances, which is why quantification of risk matters. Flu puts people into the ICU. Drinking too much water can put you into the ICU. Those are much smaller risks though.
Re:Covid-19 in Iceland: Violated Isolation and Infected over... by WarOnPrivacy on Saturday September 26, 2020 @02:12PM (#24600865)
Absolutely. Waiting for evidence is what one does when stats aren't being compiled.
Re:Covid-19 in Iceland: Violated Isolation and Infected over... by anoncake on Saturday September 26, 2020 @01:58PM (#24600764)
Of course people continue believing in a death rate of 4-5%. Having panicked over a disease with a death rate below 0.5% must be quite embarrassing.
Re:Covid-19 in Iceland: Violated Isolation and Infected over... by WarOnPrivacy on Saturday September 26, 2020 @02:08PM (#24600831)
Having a preferred stat to wave around is certainly one advantage of front-loading Covid death stats with the negligibly infected.