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Re:Wikipedia is getting a new look by thibran on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @01:18PM (#24569439)
> I almost never use the left hand side bar (and I have a feel almost no one does)

If you speak different languages, the left hand bar is very useful to switch between different language versions of an article.

Re:Wikipedia is getting a new look by bakuninsbart on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @01:38PM (#24569716)
I use that quite a lot, because google periodically just refuses to acknowledge that I usually want my links in English despite living in Germany. English quality is often times a bit better, but it is also useful to check in multiple languages, as sometimes you get different information, especially on more controversial topics.
Re:Wikipedia is getting a new look by fireattack on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @08:17PM (#24573871)
I have the same problem, so I just save English UI as bookmark/search engine and start from there.

https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en

It would prioritize English result.

I actually have three languages of Google on my bookmark bar precisely because of this, and they work like a charm.

Re:Wikipedia is getting a new look by em-bee on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @02:15PM (#24570119)
or regional ones. topics that relate to the german area are usually more detailed in german. same for other areas and languages to the point that it can be worth it to use machine translation to look into a foreign local topic
Re:Wikipedia is getting a new look by bakuninsbart on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @03:03PM (#24570667)
That's how it should be at least, but not always! - Probably the best department for german literature is in Princeton, and my favorite scholar on german existentialism, Walter Kaufmann, also an American at Princeton.
Re:Wikipedia is getting a new look by 867-5309 on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @03:43PM (#24571060)
try changing your IP address, OS language/region and browser language to English
Re:Wikipedia is getting a new look by DoctorOetker on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @08:45PM (#24574116)
I'm not aware IP addresses have language settings associated with them? since when is this the case? any links for further information?
Re:Wikipedia is getting a new look by _jal on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @10:45PM (#24574773)
For a bunch of different reasons, many sites will try to guess where you are located based on your IP address. One misguided thing some sites do is select language based on that lookup.

Although it wouldn't surprise me if some countries try to legislate about that and everyone with an international presence has to do it.

Re:Wikipedia is getting a new look by 867-5309 on Sunday September 27, 2020 @03:12AM (#24604850)
the technology is called IP Geolocation. IP addresses are able to be resolved to countries, cities, towns and in some cases more granular than that, depending on the ISP. since around ten years ago but databases have matured since then. what I was trying to get at was masking your actual IP address by way of proxy server or VPN, to make it appear as if you are connecting from another place. it also aids anonymity and bypassing geoblocked content
Re:Wikipedia is getting a new look by rasz on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @06:43PM (#24573069)
There is room for improvement here. Wiki could detect language preferences based on accept-language Header. "en-US,en;q=0.9,pl;q=0.8" is a pretty good indication I want English and Polish translations to be the first one listed. Alternatively/additionally you could let logged in users define sort order/preferences.

As is now I have to inject

    ['.vector-menu-content-list .interlanguage-link.interwiki-en', '.vector-menu-content-list .interlanguage-link.interwiki-pl'].forEach(el =>{
      if (document.querySelector(el))
      {
        el.style = ''
        let lang = document.querySelector(el)
        lang.parentNode.insertBefore(lang, lang.parentNode.firstChild)
      }
    })
Re:Wikipedia is getting a new look by fireattack on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @08:19PM (#24573880)
They already adjust the list by the frequency you visit them. They don't by default show all 100+ language links anymore for a while.
Re:Wikipedia is getting a new look by 3131s on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @10:41PM (#24574755)
Right, I did not like this change at all...

I use the langlinks across many languages, way more so than the average user so my use case is different.

Re:Wikipedia is getting a new look by fireattack on Thursday September 24, 2020 @01:54AM (#24575674)
The list is meant to change according to your usage, not the average user. Of course, you have to log in.
Re:Wikipedia is getting a new look by pwdisswordfish4 on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @02:40PM (#24570402)
This. And it’s the one thing that annoys me to no end about the mobile version, that the list of language editions isn’t there at all.
Re:Wikipedia is getting a new look by jdlrobson on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @02:42PM (#24570424)
The language button is right at the top of the page. If anything its more accessible on mobile?
Re:Wikipedia is getting a new look by thaumasiotes on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @02:44PM (#24570459)
Well, it's secret on mobile. I had the same problem - I wanted to switch languages on mobile wikipedia, but the page appears to provide no way to do that. Functionality that has been carefully designed so you won't find it isn't really an improvement over functionality that isn't there.
Re:Wikipedia is getting a new look by jdlrobson on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @05:36PM (#24572367)
Okay but that's an issue with UX and discoverability which is very different from "language editions isn’t there at all".

How would you solve this given the limited space? A label saying languages is the mosy obvious but real estate is a little limited.

I'd hope that if the icon was prominent in desktop with a label that would reinforce its discoverability.

Re:Wikipedia is getting a new look by thaumasiotes on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @06:25PM (#24572837)
> How would you solve this given the limited space? A label saying languages is the mosy obvious but real estate is a little limited.

Try looking at a wikipedia page on your phone. You could replace the 文A button with one that said "antidisestablishmentarianism" and there would still be plenty of space. It's floating at the left of an empty row.

Re:Wikipedia is getting a new look by __float on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @09:34PM (#24574422)
I agree it totally could be improved. Perhaps they're being careful? Elsewhere in the comments, someone showed that logged in users have more items in that bar (https://imgur.com/llv2rtc). That might not work so well in portrait.
Re:Wikipedia is getting a new look by jdlrobson on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @11:06PM (#24574866)
I have 5 items in that bar on my Samsung Galaxy and I have no space for a label. As the screenshot shows the labels are there, just not visible until a certain breakpoint

I agree that the UX could be improved and there is plenty of evidence to support that. On the other hand the edit icon is super discoverable and used without the label so I think the challenge with the language icon is 1) there are not many multilingual sites and 2) the other icons there potentially cause the user to ignore them entirely.

Throw in the 200+ languages and longer labels in some of them and it becomes even more complicated...

Re:Wikipedia is getting a new look by thaumasiotes on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @11:24PM (#24574942)
> I think the challenge with the language icon is 1) there are not many multilingual sites and 2) the other icons there potentially cause the user to ignore them entirely.

Multilingual sites aren't rare at all. There is a conventional way to display a language selector: it's a button (usually a dropdown menu, if you click on it) with a national flag and the name of the language.

The big problem on mobile wikipedia is that wikipedia already has a well-established way to select the language you want to see the article in, and the mobile site completely removes it.

Re:Wikipedia is getting a new look by jdlrobson on Thursday September 24, 2020 @01:29PM (#24581090)
Using a national flag is a really bad UX pattern given the political ramifications and potentially offensive. Languages are not owned by countries. I am not aware of a multilingual site that provides over 200 languages in such a way that its country neutral (switching to a Spain based shopping site is not the same as switching to Spanish)?

As I've said before the mobile site doesn't remove it. It just changes the mechanism for understandable reasons based on the medium.

Nice to chat to you.

Re:Wikipedia is getting a new look by tasogare on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @03:04PM (#24570673)
> Functionality that has been carefully designed so you won't find it

The button is labeled 文A, which is quite common for translation service, and is just under an article title so it’s literally the most visible UI element. It’s difficult to make it more accessible than that...

Re:Wikipedia is getting a new look by kossTKR on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @03:27PM (#24570917)
Pretty sure 99 out of a 100 don't know what "文A" means. I've had the same complaint, - never once did it occurs to me that "文A" meant translation.

This to me is a testament to the fact that most buttons should actually be text unless extremely common like the hamburger menu, but even that's debatable.

Re:Wikipedia is getting a new look by webmaven on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @04:11PM (#24571410)
> This to me is a testament to the fact that most buttons should actually be text unless extremely common like the hamburger menu, but even that's debatable.

I agree, especially on mobile (even in 2020, many users — who often just got used to the hamburger menu — don't realize that the vertical ellipsis is a symbol for "menu" or "more options", it often just looks like a random decoration to them), although on a desktop website or app you (hopefully) have the option of hovering the mouse pointer (even accidentally) over any unfamiliar bit of UI gubbins to get a clue.

I'll note though that the specific example of "文A" is, in fact, a text label. The first Chinese glyph even translates as "text".

Re:Wikipedia is getting a new look by thaumasiotes on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @04:19PM (#24571495)
> I'll note though that the specific example of "文A" is, in fact, a text label.

Only in the sense that those glyphs are used in certain writing systems. It's not text in the more important sense of expressing a linguistic message. It's just random characters. "文A" is a text label to exactly the same degree that ":-)" is a text label.

Note in particular that the Chinese glyph does not translate as "language". That would be 语/語. As you accurately note, it translates as "writing".

Re:Wikipedia is getting a new look by Kliment on Thursday September 24, 2020 @05:50AM (#24576964)
That's not quite true - 语 as in 汉语 is a spoken language or dialect. 文 is used for written language, and can mean a language in general, a writing system, or an entire culture, depending on what you combine it with.
Re:Wikipedia is getting a new look by thaumasiotes on Thursday September 24, 2020 @11:06AM (#24579287)
> depending on what you combine it with

It's standing alone here. I'm aware of words like 文明 and 中文, but here are the 14 glosses for 文 in the 现代汉语规范词典:

1. (verb) to tattoo or paint patterns or words onto a body

2. (noun, literary) a pattern, particularly as of wood grain

3. (noun) ancient rites/ceremonies

4. (noun) non-military affairs (opposite of 武)

5. (adjective) gentle; not fierce

6. (noun) indicating phenomena of nature or of human society

7. (noun) writing

8. (noun) an essay

9. (noun) the humanities and social sciences

10. (noun) an official document

11. (noun) Classical Chinese (the language that is to China as Latin is to southern Europe)

12. (measure word) used for the copper coins of traditional China

13. (verb) to cover; hide

14. A surname

Most of these senses come from words that include the morpheme 文, not from uses it permits alone, but "language" is still not even listed.

Re:Wikipedia is getting a new look by Kliment on Friday September 25, 2020 @10:15AM (#24589937)
新华字典 has a gloss of "language" with "written language (文字)" and "foreign language (外文)" given as examples. That's where I'm getting it from.
Re:Wikipedia is getting a new look by MayeulC on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @04:14PM (#24571443)
Well, it has one merit at the very least: regardless of the interface language, you will find that button.
Re:Wikipedia is getting a new look by thaumasiotes on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @04:26PM (#24571581)
That isn't true either. The button has no borders nor any other indication that it's a button; it appears to be a simple decoration on the mobile page.
Re:Wikipedia is getting a new look by simias on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @08:12PM (#24573829)
I only learned about it when somebody pointed it out to me in an HN thread a couple of years ago, like the parent. The button is small and I think since I don't speak Chinese or Japanese my brain tends to skip Chinese characters as I assume that whatever they convey is not aimed at me. It's also alone on the left-hand side, with no decoration or styling showing that it's interactive.

A flag icon or simply some more explicit text would be vastly easier to understand for me, especially if it actually looked like an interactive element.

Re:Wikipedia is getting a new look by jobigoud on Thursday September 24, 2020 @03:37AM (#24576261)
Flags are for countries not languages. I don't like the current solution too much but I'm glad it's not flags.
Re:Wikipedia is getting a new look by pwdisswordfish4 on Thursday September 24, 2020 @02:12PM (#24581633)
So I’ve been switching to desktop version, locating the language sidebar, then switching back to mobile for nothing all this time?!
Re:Wikipedia is getting a new look by cuddlybacon on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @01:35PM (#24569692)
True. But the gif in the article indicates they intend to move the language selector to a more prominent location.
Re:Wikipedia is getting a new look by rmetzler on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @01:46PM (#24569809)
While the language selection on mobile Wikipedia is in a very prominent spot, I often struggle to find it, because it’s just some Asian sign I can’t make sense of. I hope they don’t do this on desktop too.