News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by ahelwer on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @06:58AM (#24565452)
I don't know, man. It's easy to get all abstract with phrases like "support a cause" but we live in a concrete world. Mozilla employs a lot of gay people. Prop 8 was viciously homophobic, both in concept and especially in execution of its campaign. How would you feel going to work knowing your boss's boss thinks you don't deserve rights?
Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by srtjstjsj on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @08:54AM (#24566412)
Better then not going to work because the CEO chosen for her politically correct identity destroyed the organizer.

Mozilla employees did NOT support the firing of Eich. Don't use them as human shields for your assault on civility.

Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by hacker_newz on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @10:41AM (#24567643)
Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by nullc on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @10:54AM (#24567818)
A few people commenting is not widespread support. I was at Mozilla at the time and I didn't get the impression that the views you linked were broadly representative.
Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by nullc on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @12:37PM (#24568890)
And FWIW: I didn't personally feel the backlash at Brendan was appropriate, but given that it existed the outcome was probably unavoidable.

I say this as someone who, while living in Virgina and having never lived in California at the time prop 8 was on the ballot (I moved here a few years later), I donated to opposition to CA prop 8 and decided to not get married to my (opposite sex) partner out of solidarity with gay people who couldn't get married in our state.

I never felt that I should be or would be persecuted at Mozilla (which employed a lot of christians, and particularly Catholics), if it had become public that I funded opposition to prop 8. Nor, by the same token, did I think it was appropriate for Brendan to come under fire for funding support for it. I have sympathy for the theoretical argument that it might be difficult to work for someone with personal views incompatible with yours or your identity, but in practice Mozilla was an an extremely open and inclusive place that employed people of all kinds and treated them with respect. (In other words, a theoretical problem which wasn't in this instance a practical problem by any report I heard.)

Although I don't have any actual knowledge, if I had to speculate I would guess there were other Mozilla employees who supported prop 8 (many?). -- especially considering that prop 8 _passed_ with >52% support.

Even though I strongly disagreed with him on this subject (apparently! not that I'd have any way to know other than the media coverage of this), the incident made me feel slightly less safe and welcome there-- because clearly your lawful and constitutionally protected outside-of-work personal/political/religious views were potentially subject to scrutiny. Although not very much so, because it appeared clear to me that the events were primarily being driven by public noise, and not by some internal wrong-think witchhunt.

Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by pseudalopex on Thursday September 24, 2020 @05:36PM (#24583968)
His views weren't the problem. His actions were. And not thinking his actions were discriminatory.

The CEO is the face of the company and oversees HR. Most people who objected to Eich being CEO didn't have a problem with him being CTO.

Believing different races shouldn't mix is legal. Just saying it in public will disqualify you from being CEO at most companies. Never mind funding a constitutional amendment.

Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by cmiles74 on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @09:08AM (#24566560)
In my experience it's been about a half-and-half split between managers I respect and those that I don't. It's certainly not my preference but I have worked for people who don't really respect me and, very likely, didn't believe I deserved all sorts of things (a living wage being among them).

That said, Mozilla works in a competitive environment. Perhaps it would have made more sense to wait for valuable employees to start leaving before dismissing their CEO. While I find his position on Prop 8 offensive, as others have pointed out, they are entitled to their beliefs.

Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by roenxi on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @09:41AM (#24566933)
If I earn $100,000 am I allowed to ask for people advocating for tax increases to be ejected from the company for being wealthophobes?

That isn't as idle a question as you might think on first glance. Denying someone marriage rights is waaay down the list of ways voters can screw each other over through government policy. Most high income earners are in companies with co-workers who literally argue that they should be less well off.

Being anti-gay-marriage is more stupid because the upside is unclear, but we expect people in the same company to put up with bigger differences of opinion on a routine basis. Different religions have gone to war in the past. I don't think many battles have been fought over official marriage rights.

Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by driverdan on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @10:54AM (#24567828)
Are you seriously comparing civil rights to a tax increase? Spend 10 minutes today learning about marriage and the rights it includes. I used to think it wasn't a big deal until I actually learned about it. Marriage includes hundreds of legal rights that have a huge impact on a couple's life (and death).
Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by 6510 on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @11:25AM (#24568157)
I one time notice that strict job descriptions are incredibly rare. I've only really seen them on factory floors. For laughs I ask a bunch of people in the same function to describe their job. Having asked this a few times it was fun to chat about how different their idea was from their colleagues. Some of them were surprisingly clueless. They thought their job was the stuff that currently consumed most of their time.

I think in programming we've learned (the hard way) that fuzzy input should be rejected. Stuff should do exactly what it says on the can. No mather how sophisticated, if a date object returns political opinion they are not parsed.

Perhaps one day we can do modular job descriptions or functional employment. Accurate task descriptions with actual specs. Well formed execution and response text. The most professional people I've worked with were already strict about what everyone's job was.

Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by kevin_thibedeau on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @10:54AM (#24567829)
This is Cali. You can be castigated for saying 那个 too much.
Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by zimablue on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @09:32AM (#24566833)
Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by LGNUITLZCJ on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @10:37AM (#24567603)
By that definition, Obama was viciously homophobic[0]. How many people who wanted Eich fired voted for Obama in 2008?

[0] https://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2008/08/obama-says-...

[dead]
Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by jacquesm on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @07:30AM (#24565700)
Marriage as an institution is about 4500 years old. The tax advantages and other advantages conferred on married people are much more recent.

So this was far more about withholding something from a group than it was of granting something to that group.

Either way, on the total age of humanity that is an eyeblink and fortunately we are not above progressing. At least, not all of us.

Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by mynameishere on Thursday September 24, 2020 @04:12PM (#24583061)
On the total age of civilization it's pretty close to 100 percent. Shrug. Just be ready for the regression to the mean.
Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by Consultant32452 on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @07:17AM (#24565583)
Doesn't basically everyone feel they are being denied some basic human rights all the time? Progressives are being denied healthcare rights. Libertarians are being denied property rights. etc.
[dead]
Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by akamaka on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @10:33AM (#24567547)
Isn’t it more of a slippery slope argument?
Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by dmingod666 on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @07:49AM (#24565848)
Looking at from the other side of the globe, as a non-american. I get the impression that in silicon valley, technology is all about skin color, what you have between your legs and what you want to do with what you have between you legs - end of story. Those are the really important bit. Everything else is just the details.

It looks like pure politics, keep conservatives out and keep liberals in. His fault wasn't the donation. His fault was being outed as a conservative.

I think someone should try wearing a trump hat to work at a technology company for a week and see how long they last in the organization.

Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by ksec on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @08:59AM (#24566468)
Yes. I sometimes wonder if there any conservatives in Silicon Valley.
Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by AlexandrB on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @09:36AM (#24566887)
Considering the number of libertarians in technology. I'd say yes, there are many. They're just not the bible-thumping kind that you're thinking of.
Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by ahelwer on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @08:16AM (#24566071)
If you aren't in America, and you're frequenting (largely) American discussion boards, you're going to see the topics that get a lot of discussion - things where not everyone is on board with one side or the other. This of course tilts heavily toward culture issues.

Some people like to wax poetic about getting along with people with whom you disagree. But there's a difference between disagreeing on, say, tabs vs. spaces or fiscal policy or something, and disagreeing about what sort of people do or do not deserve rights. This situation clearly falls in the latter category and attempts to conflate it with the former are very unconvincing.

Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by srtjstjsj on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @08:55AM (#24566429)
Gay marriage is not an office work issue.
Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by driverdan on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @10:56AM (#24567846)
It is when your company's CEO actively fights against it.
Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by dmingod666 on Monday September 28, 2020 @10:08PM (#24623526)
why only in IT..? Why not in for example its not an issue for car manufacturing companies or oil companies?
Re:Firefox usage is down despite Mozilla's top exec pay goin... by driverdan on Tuesday September 29, 2020 @09:48AM (#24627751)
No one said it should be limited to IT.