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Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by rayiner on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @12:36PM (#24556602)
It feels wrong but it’s also how pretty much every culture got to be the way it is. Why do I have an Arabic last name even though I was born 3,000 miles away from the Middle East? Because 800 years ago an Islamic empire conquered India and Bangladesh. Why do Bangladeshis wear powdered wigs in court? Because the British conquered them 500 years after that. The British themselves are the product of numerous waves of conquest: Angles conquering the Pictish, Saxons conquering the Angles, Normans conquering who by now were Anglo-Saxons.
Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by maxbond on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @01:18PM (#24557244)
Past wrongs do not justify present wrongs.

It is not wrong for individuals to choose to assimilate. The deliberate and systematic destruction of other cultures - which China is engaged in on multiple fronts - is wrong.

Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by tharne on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @01:29PM (#24557372)
I see this a lot. There's a loss of confidence in the West, where people feel like you can't call out immoral behavior unless it's committed by another westerner or a western nation. This serves absolutely no one well.

The fact that a country or civilization has past sins should not be a disqualification from taking a moral stand in the present. Some form of mild hypocrisy is vastly preferable to sitting silent while a country destroys another culture or puts it's Muslim population in concentration camps.

Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by bobbyz on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @05:33PM (#24560203)
The problem is not past sins, its past sins that have yet to be atoned for. Conditions for Native Americans are still inexcusable up to this day.
Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by stjohnswarts on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @11:46PM (#24562741)
Those should be fixed and I would support them. but do I feel guilty about what my ancestors did to my ancestors? No, I don't. I feel we should right the wrongs, but I refuse to fold to the "woke" culture that I should feel like a POS for what my ancestors did.
Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by tekknik on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @06:47AM (#24565386)
So present day americans need to pay for the sins of our fathers so to speak? Or to put it another way, we present day americans had no say in the decision but we must pay for the past americans decisions?
Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by bognition on Thursday September 24, 2020 @07:03AM (#24577361)
No we aren’t guilty for the sins of our parents but if we decide to ignore the ongoing injustice then we become complicit.
Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by tekknik on Friday September 25, 2020 @08:23AM (#24588952)
I’m sorry, but no.
Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by kazinator on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @07:19AM (#24565604)
The concept is valid.

Suppose someone's great grandfather stole from my great grandfather something I was supposed to inherit. They inherited it instead.

It remains stolen property that belongs to me.

Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by tekknik on Friday September 25, 2020 @08:24AM (#24588958)
No the concept is not valid and we have laws in place to protect against this very thing. Should all debts be transferred upon death? Do you want to pay for your parents loans they didn’t finish?
Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by kazinator on Friday September 25, 2020 @08:05PM (#24595301)
No, debts should not be transferred. What should be transferred to heirs is what is left of the estate after creditors are paid off, if anything.

If someone dies and they owe money, the creditors have a claim to the estate.

If their claims exceed the value of the estate, they are out of luck; they can't go after other parties to recover everything.

If someone dies and leaves your their house, but it is mortgaged, then the mortgage likely has to be paid off before the title is transferred.

Creditors having a right to the estate means that you can't borrow (or steal) something, die, and have that property pass it to a heir free and clear.

Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by tekknik on Thursday October 08, 2020 @08:50AM (#24718641)
So someone who lost their property is a creditor now, having loaned the stolen object?
Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by maxbond on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @08:57PM (#24561819)
That is true, but all that means is that we have two problems, not that the criticism is wrong.

Hypocrisy is rarely a substantive counterargument. It's much more often whataboutism.

Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by bobbyz on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @09:06PM (#24561885)
Okay, but in this case I'm not saying there's whataboutism in your argument. The point I'm trying to make is that if you're powerful enough, you can make human rights abuses and then get away with it scot-free and that America helped set this precedent.
Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by sn9 on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @09:27PM (#24561988)
Not defending human rights abuses or China's behavior, but the idea that America set the precedent is myopic. The US isn't even 300 years old. History is much longer, darker, and more violent.

Human rights are themselves a fairly recent idea. I can't think of a single powerful country/empire that hasn't committed them to some degree. And things were much worse in the past.

Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by Fauntleroy on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @01:28PM (#24557370)
I think the point here is, what are you going to do about it? This is unfortunately how humanity operates. It disgusts me but history shows that it is nigh inevitable.
Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by maxbond on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @02:22PM (#24558078)
I don't have the answers that I would wish, but refusing to give up on humanity is a good place to start.

History is prologue, not destiny.

Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by Fauntleroy on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @03:37PM (#24558874)
For what it's worth, there's been a lot of progress!
Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by sn9 on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @09:28PM (#24561997)
The international community banding together to impose extremely strong economic sanctions on countries with human rights abuses commensurate with the severity and magnitude of the offenses?
Re:China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet by quadrifoliate on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @01:43PM (#24557569)
And South Asia is not exactly a great example of how well things turned out after having been under multiple successions of conquering empires.

Source: Am South Asian.