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Re:Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pa... by clairity on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @01:29AM (#24551173)
nyc and other municipalities really bungled the categorization of risk. restaurants and bars shouldn't have been lumped together in the first place.

most restaurants could have employed some modest measures and stayed open at 80-90% capacity (which may be below break-even for some, but probably enough to ride out the pandemic with price hikes and/or modest gov loans), as risk is isolated between tables (no, that one hypothesized case of down-blower transmission is not proof of significant risk) and you shouldn't be sharing breathing space with people you don't trust. people who would eat at a restaurant together likely ate together in private anyway when restaurants were shuttered.

bars, on the other hand, by their very nature make it very difficult to contain transmission risk, because the whole point of a bar is to lower your guard to promote mixed socialization. distancing, talking gently, limiting respiratory ejections, and/or wearing a mask just don't go together with drinking and carousing. (private parties then likely became a primary transmission vector, but there's no way to stop private parties without truly draconian measures.)

we could have let restaurants save themselves by remaining open, and tackled the remaining, more manageable issue of closed bars with supplemental programs.

Re:Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pa... by tedivm on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @01:52AM (#24551315)
What you are saying doesn't seem to be the reality. Studies show that there is in fact risk beyond just your table.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm?s_cid=mm...

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/88543

Re:Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pa... by clairity on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @02:43AM (#24551614)
the researchers' recommendation:

> "'Implementing safe practices to reduce exposures to SARS-CoV-2 during on-site eating and drinking should be considered to protect customers, employees, and communities and slow the spread of COVID-19,' Fisher and colleagues concluded."

which is exactly in line with opening restaurants with modest measures.

the study only provided impetus to look closer at restaurants as potentially not insignificant localities of spread due to self-reports citing slightly higher restaurant patronage in the 2 weeks prior. they declined to put forth any conclusions on prevalence or mechanisms for spread in restaurants because they didn't study those things. they only presented some statistics on the self-reports. that's it.

Re:Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pa... by just-juan-post on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @01:58AM (#24551350)
It's easy to point out risk. Anyone can do that.

At what point do we fully re-open? Winter 2022 after everyone has had a mandatory vaccine?

Re:Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pa... by vinay427 on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @02:19AM (#24551474)
It's not enough to just point out or dismiss different risk factors as if they're all the same, and both sides of this debate on restaurants seem to be guilty of this in some circles. Evaluating risk, done appropriately, is more complicated and involves at least weighting the risks of specific dangers of different options.
Re:Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pa... by SpicyLemonZest on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @02:16AM (#24551455)
Is there a particular portion of this study you're referring to? I don't see anything about risk at vs. beyond your table here.
Re:Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pa... by therealx on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @02:42AM (#24551608)
The CDC just said yesterday that they confirm airborne transmission, and from the case of the choir whom was 6 feet apart, it sure makes it seem beyond one table worth.
Re:Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pa... by 2Crisp on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @08:16AM (#24553587)
"The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) on Monday took down its guidance warning on possible airborne transmission of the novel coronavirus, saying that the draft recommendation was posted in error."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-cdc-ai...

Re:Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pa... by SpicyLemonZest on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @02:47AM (#24551644)
The question isn't whether it's possible at all. It is, I don't dispute that, but even post-vaccine we'll never reach a point where it's impossible to transmit the virus. The question is how high the risk is relative to other things.
Re:Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pa... by user5994461 on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @04:31AM (#24552231)
>>> with price hikes

If a restaurant hikes the price, I am never going back there.

Paying £15-£20 with service charge for a steak or burger is already insane. They can't ask for more, especially at the peak of a crisis where there is no money to pay for it.

HN don't get but it but every young graduate is desperate and might not get a job for years while the rest of the workforce got laid off or is under reduced salary.

Re:Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pa... by daheza on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @01:35AM (#24551214)
I feel like this might ignore that a good portion of restaurant sales are from the bar. Chilis, Applebees, to an extent BJs Restaurant. I feel only a few companies have adopted to the fact that you can deliver alcohol. There's no reason that those bar sales, can't be from the restaurant over postmates or uber eats.
Re:Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pa... by jlg23 on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @02:31AM (#24551542)
> There's no reason that those bar sales, can't be from the restaurant over postmates or uber eats.

Except for the prices, maybe? While it is true that most restaurants make most (or even all) of their profits with drinks, customers probably realize that they are paying 200% markup for a zero-effort service if they ordered beers from a restaurant instead of getting them themselves...

Re:Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pa... by razius on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @01:47AM (#24551280)
You know the point of a bar is not the alcohol, right?
Re:Almost 90 percent of NYC bars and restaurants couldn’t pa... by kevml on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @01:52AM (#24551312)
Well, it is. But not the only point.