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Re:The benefits of note-taking by hand by amadeuspagel on Saturday September 19, 2020 @11:47AM (#24528225)
> Researchers have found that note-taking associated with keyboarding involves taking notes verbatim in a way that does not involve processing information, and so have called this “non-generative” note-taking.

From the linked paper:

> Taking notes on laptops rather than in longhand is increasingly common. Many researchers have suggested that laptop note taking is less effective than longhand note taking for learning. Prior studies have primarily focused on students’ capacity for multitasking and distraction when using laptops. The present research suggests that even when laptops are used solely to take notes, they may still be impairing learning because their use results in shallower processing. In three studies, we found that students who took notes on laptops performed worse on conceptual questions than students who took notes longhand. We show that whereas taking more notes can be beneficial, laptop note takers’ tendency to transcribe lectures verbatim rather than processing information and reframing it in their own words is detrimental to learning.

The mechanism here is probably that people are able to type faster, so typing lets them write down every word, whereas handwriting forces them to choose what to write down. The superior way of note taking by this logic is clearly typing on your phone.

But this has irrelevant for note taking as people on HN are likely to understand it: Writing down your ideas.

Re:The benefits of note-taking by hand by hrktb on Saturday September 19, 2020 @03:35PM (#24529879)
As for a lot of studies, what sticks to me is they were all done on students.

In a sense, they take notes all day long so they are an interesting subject. On the other hand they are taking notes related to an external source, and not of stuff they are thinking by themselves or content anchored in a process other than passing a test.

I took notes by hand at school and take only digital notes now that I am working. While I respect the research done, I can’t help but feel that there’s something missing.

Intuitively, I can’t imagine that content that comes from my own brain that I am formatting into notes has a completely different retention rate depending on wether I type it or write it. Especially as I have no time pressure to think about what I’ll write.

Basically, would I remember this comment better if I wrote it on a post’it ? Id really like a study on this, and not students at school.

Re:The benefits of note-taking by hand by mandada on Saturday September 19, 2020 @06:16PM (#24530666)
I would also like to add that the notion that “because hand writing is more involved so you remember it better” doesn’t work for me. Hand writing is actually distracting because I don’t do it enough for it to be fluid so I focus more on the hand writing than what I’m thinking of and end up losing my train of thought. Typing on the other hand I’ve been doing since I was a kid ever since I became interested in computers and because it’s so natural and fluid I have an easier time putting thoughts down on paper and going down my train of thought.

Like you said, I think a better takeaway from this study is that you don’t remember what you don’t think about or engage with. I’m perfectly capable of not thinking about what I write and subsequently forgetting it just as much as this study claims only happens whe you type stuff out.

Re:The benefits of note-taking by hand by Meandering on Saturday September 19, 2020 @12:13PM (#24528447)
There a couple aspects of other than time-taken that I think has a major impact on the ROI ratio. Note taking on a laptop is inherently restrictive in the sense that you are limited by the capability of your tools. So, there's less thought on what to note and how to note it. For example, I will reorganize sections of notes in a way that is more conducive to my though process. That, in and of itself, has added value to understanding and comprehension. I've created an abstracted experience which includes doubling down on the concepts I'm learning and creates more intimacy with the actual notes I'm taking. In addition, memories are stored in extremely complex ways that are dependent on our senses. The tactile experience on the formation of memory shouldn't be ignored. Personally, I take notes by and transfer to latex. This allows me to double down on considering the information and 'revising' my resources.
Re:The benefits of note-taking by hand by medell on Saturday September 19, 2020 @01:19PM (#24528976)
Exactly. This is where sketchnoting / graphic recording can be extremely beneficial. It's also fun and I'm far more likely to review handwritten notes that contain graphics organized in however manner I wish, versus a chunk of typed out near verbatim top to bottom text. As you progress in visual note taking you can develop a shorthand, a library of icons you repeatedly use and can sketch out quickly.
Re:The benefits of note-taking by hand by bakul on Saturday September 19, 2020 @12:02PM (#24528359)
Note taking by hand implies making your hand draw the right shapes in the right sequence (& "verifying" them by reading) so in effect more of your brain in involved in actual processing. This may have a larger effect than reframing in your own words? [Speculation as I rarely took notes. Even the process of note taking distracted me!]
Re:The benefits of note-taking by hand by jjoonathan on Saturday September 19, 2020 @12:12PM (#24528443)
There's a "Price is Right" effect too: more processing = more engagement with the material = better, right up until you can't keep up with the lecture and then it falls apart.

It's not just a function of the average conceptual speed of the lecture, either, it's also a function of how bursty it is, and both are relative to what you already know and modulated by the quality of the presentation.

Taped lectures are a game changer because you can 2x over the slow parts and dwell on the bursts.

Re:The benefits of note-taking by hand by chongli on Saturday September 19, 2020 @12:40PM (#24528654)
right up until you can't keep up with the lecture and then it falls apart

And that's been my experience as a math student. Professors of advanced math courses tend to write very quickly for brief bursts and then pause to explain what's going on. The definition or proof they describe can often be subtle enough that you don't have much of a chance to understand it unless you've had the opportunity to preview the lecture notes before class.

Tragically, not every professor provides lecture notes in advance, and some don't provide lecture notes at all. Then if you're taking notes by hand you're taking a big risk that you might pause to reflect and miss noting a crucial step in the proof, leaving yourself baffled by what you wrote later on.

Re:The benefits of note-taking by hand by astrobe_ on Saturday September 19, 2020 @01:37PM (#24529121)
Actually, the same short-term memory and muscle memory that allow you to have an "output buffer" when typing works with hand writing. You can finish writing a word, maybe even a sentence, while thinking about something else.

If you look at the paper sheet, it is because you have to check you are still on the guideline.

However I believe that at uni, I would write a whole line without looking if I needed to (that's after about a decade of fast hand writing almost 8 hours a day, 4-5 days a week, though). That those lines had a tendency to go up or down was not a problem, because making a clean copy of those notes was part of my learning strategy.

Re:The benefits of note-taking by hand by Al-Khwarizmi on Sunday September 20, 2020 @04:24AM (#24532680)
I don't think it's only a matter of speed.

Of course it's only anecdotal evidence, but when I was studying at university I could register pretty much everything by hand (thanks to using a fountain pen. Those who wish to write fast for any reason should consider a fountain pen - with a medium or broad, relatively stiff nib) and still I find manual note taking much more effective than typing.

You still are doing lots of mental computations when you write by hand, even if you don't need to summarize.

Re:The benefits of note-taking by hand by addicted on Sunday September 20, 2020 @11:49AM (#24534655)
I am curious if there has been a comparison of hand written cursive note taking vs hand written block letter note taking.

When writing in cursive, the entire word affects how you write each letter, while in block letter writing each letter is independent. Keyboard typing is like block letter writing in that respect, and I suspect that might also be playing a role.