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Re:Sweden’s low positive test rate ‘vindicates coronavirus s... by rossdavidh on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @05:27PM (#24426106)
Well, they are better off so far than France, Italy, the U.K., Spain, and Belgium, which is most of western Europe. So in other words, as good or better than most of western Europe.

Now, why western Europe, as a whole, has the worst mortality rates in the world, is a valid question, but it has nothing specifically to do with Sweden.

Re:Sweden’s low positive test rate ‘vindicates coronavirus s... by soco on Thursday September 10, 2020 @03:37AM (#24429858)
Italy, Spain and Switzerland were hit when nobody even knew what the virus was. By the time politics started to put measures into place, deaths already were starting to pile up. Sweden and other nations had time to prepare some kind of strategy, so I would put that gained time into equation as well. That's why the comparison to the neighbours is more appropriate. Also, their neighbours will have also more similar social patterns - and it's exactly on the social patterns that the whose Swedish strategy was built. What works for Sweden doesn't for others: you can't compare the human interactions in Stockholm with the interactions in Mallorca, so how could you even think to compare their approaches?
Re:Sweden’s low positive test rate ‘vindicates coronavirus s... by thu2111 on Thursday September 10, 2020 @01:55PM (#24434818)
Switzerland? Deaths didn't "pile up" in Switzerland. Look at the excess death data. 2018 showed a bigger spike in deaths than 2020.

Sweden's strategy would have worked fine everywhere. Most deaths are in care homes, that general lockdowns don't protect, and anyway, remember that they were never advertised as reducing deaths? The virus just comes back when lockdowns are over, even if you assume they work.

Sweden is the winner of COVID, by far. It is indeed vindicated.

Re:Sweden’s low positive test rate ‘vindicates coronavirus s... by cma on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @05:35PM (#24426191)
France has 5X the population density of Sweden though, so maybe France did much better considering that. Sweden has lots of barren arctic area though so it may not be a fair measure. You'd want to know how many people the average person interacts with pre COVID or something.
Re:Sweden’s low positive test rate ‘vindicates coronavirus s... by SahAssar on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @05:49PM (#24426336)
One of the most populated reigons of sweden (skåne) has one of the lowest per capita infection rate. Globally (on a country level) there does not seem to be a strong correlation between density and infection. I think it will take years to get to the bottom of what works and what doesn't and why.
Re:Sweden’s low positive test rate ‘vindicates coronavirus s... by cma on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @07:40PM (#24427270)
I'm not sure what explains Skane being so low, but the highest per capita case county was also the county with the first case. So random seed case event timings seem to have been more important there: "On 31 January, the first Swedish case was confirmed in a woman in Jönköping who had travelled to Sweden from Wuhan, China, on 24 January directly from Wuhan. "
Re:Sweden’s low positive test rate ‘vindicates coronavirus s... by dariusj18 on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @05:39PM (#24426239)
Re:Sweden’s low positive test rate ‘vindicates coronavirus s... by cygx on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @07:18PM (#24427093)
Well, they are better off so far than France, Italy, the U.K., Spain, and Belgium

What's your metric? Because in terms of deaths per capita, they are supposedly worse off than France - as well as the Netherlands, Ireland, Switzerland, Portugal, Germany, Denmark, Austria, Finland, Norway, and Greece. So far, Sweden is not doing as good or better than most of western Europe...

Re:Sweden’s low positive test rate ‘vindicates coronavirus s... by notacoward on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @06:07PM (#24426478)
Leaving out Germany, which is the single most populous state in western Europe, is some world-class cherry picking. If you want to narrow it down, the next logical comparison would be to Sweden's neighbors, and that doesn't look good either. What's the rational reason for choosing the very unique sample that you did?
Re:Sweden’s low positive test rate ‘vindicates coronavirus s... by irq11 on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @06:33PM (#24426673)
It isn’t cherry-picking to say “this European country has done better than <list of all European countries that are worse>”. The selection criteria is clear and consistent: you sort the countries and take the ones that are worse.

It’s cherry-picking to take two countries that did better, simply because you prefer that narrative.

Re:Sweden’s low positive test rate ‘vindicates coronavirus s... by notacoward on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @06:58PM (#24426897)
> sort the countries and take the ones that are worse

Ranking items and then choosing the most favorable is exactly where the phrase came from. "Clear and consistent" is not sufficient. Any lie can be clear and consistent. There also has to be a reason beyond self-interest for limiting the sample to a particular subset.

Re:Sweden’s low positive test rate ‘vindicates coronavirus s... by irq11 on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @07:15PM (#24427060)
The term literally came from picking cherries.

Observing where an item lies in a ranked list is no more or less biased than picking a median.

Re:Sweden’s low positive test rate ‘vindicates coronavirus s... by cygx on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @07:51PM (#24427355)
For reference, here's the list of major western European countries (population > 1M) ranked by deaths per capita attributed to COVID-19:

    Belgium
    Spain
    United Kingdom
    Italy
    Sweden
    France
    Netherlands
    Ireland
    Switzerland
    Portugal
    Germany
    Denmark
    Austria
    Finland
    Norway
    Greece
"As good or better than most of western Europe" does not look like an accurate characterization of Sweden's position to me...
Re:Sweden’s low positive test rate ‘vindicates coronavirus s... by irq11 on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @08:34PM (#24427650)
I didn’t say that, so I’m not sure why you’re making the argument to me.

Belgium, Spain, the UK and Italy are indeed worse off than Sweden, and it isn’t selective to point it out. That’s all I’m saying here.

Re:Sweden’s low positive test rate ‘vindicates coronavirus s... by username90 on Thursday September 10, 2020 @01:45AM (#24429251)
Same list but with population >10M.

    Belgium
    Spain
    United Kingdom
    Italy
    Sweden
    France
    Netherlands
    Portugal
    Germany
    Greece
So 4 countries worse and 5 better. If you count excess deaths then Netherlands is also worse than Sweden so 5 worse and 4 better.

Anyway the point is that counting UK, Spain and Italy with the same weight as countries one tenth of their size doesn't make much sense.

Re:Sweden’s low positive test rate ‘vindicates coronavirus s... by cygx on Thursday September 10, 2020 @03:38AM (#24429864)
Anyway the point is that counting UK, Spain and Italy with the same weight as countries one tenth of their size doesn't make much sense.

If you want to go that way, it's better to look at integrated metrics instead of discarding data points (I only did so because I was lazy and didn't want to look up the data for all the countries with less than a city's woth of inhabitants).

So let's do that:

Sweden's death rate per 1k population is 0.58, whereas the average rate (averaged over population) for western Europe[1] is 0.42. Sweden just isn't doing as good or better than most of western Europe.

For reference, spread among countries is 0.025 (Monaco) to 1.24 (San Marino) with a median of 0.20 for the full list, and 0.028 (Greece) to 0.86 (Belgium) with a median of 0.30 for my restricted one. The median of your list is 0.52.

[1] Andorra, Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Malta, Monaco, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, San Marino, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, United Kingdom

Re:Sweden’s low positive test rate ‘vindicates coronavirus s... by ZacharyPitts on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @05:35PM (#24426195)
Why could be as simple as actual testing en masse, and publishing of the results.
Re:Sweden’s low positive test rate ‘vindicates coronavirus s... by paulryanrogers on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @05:32PM (#24426159)
By what measure are they better off?