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Re:The Long-Term Stock Exchange Opens for Business by pbhjpbhj on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @10:06AM (#24421098)
Forgive me for straying OT:

It seems like a fact-based analogy. 'A group have been restrained to "territory", but a member has broken that restraint'. There doesn't seem inherently to be a judgement as to the restraint or the rogue being right/wrong.

I'd be interested in why you felt the usage was beyond the pale sufficiently that it needed to be reined in? The concept of territorial reservations doesn't appear to me to denigrate any group particularly; maybe I'm wrong in that?

Re:The Long-Term Stock Exchange Opens for Business by mikepurvis on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @10:14AM (#24421185)
Not the parent, but it's obvious what the origin of the phrase is, and while it may not be as icky as something like "open the kimono", it's definitely one that is trivially replaced with no loss in meaning, and therefore almost certainly should be:

"The issue with 'off the reservation' and similar phrases is that these things are said without any thought. They become a part of the common vernacular. Freely they move from mind to mind, mouth to mouth. Maybe the meaning of these sorts of phrases never should have been the issue. Maybe living lives without thinking about what we say and do is of greater concern."

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2014/06/29/326690947...

Re:The Long-Term Stock Exchange Opens for Business by dionian on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @10:24AM (#24421304)
We can also listen to the phrase without imputing immoral motives to the speaker.
Re:The Long-Term Stock Exchange Opens for Business by mikepurvis on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @11:17AM (#24421958)
Sure. No one is saying that the person is bad for saying it. Indeed, they're probably a good person, and for that reason may be interested in hearing why the phrase is better avoided. Particularly if their regular travels (friends, work colleagues, etc) may not put them in contact with indigenous people.
Re:The Long-Term Stock Exchange Opens for Business by cthalupa on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @11:36AM (#24422159)
Certainly. I do not think the majority of the people using the phrase are racists that want to see the continued subjugation of indigenous peoples.

But we should educate them on why the phrase is one that should be avoided.

Re:The Long-Term Stock Exchange Opens for Business by jayd16 on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @10:25AM (#24421322)
Is there some pejorative meaning to opening the kimono or is it just mildly lewd?
Re:The Long-Term Stock Exchange Opens for Business by mikepurvis on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @10:47AM (#24421600)
Would you use the phrase if there was a woman, especially an Asian woman present? If not, then that's your answer:

> “Opening the kimono” implies a coyness and sensuality that conjures up images of submissive Asian women reluctantly willing to show you their most vulnerable side. I understand why someone would use it just from the shock value alone. It took the wind out of me when I read it.

https://medium.com/@brunchandbudget/opening-the-kimono-on-op...

Re:The Long-Term Stock Exchange Opens for Business by jayd16 on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @11:15AM (#24421931)
I wouldn't have thought much about when to use it, which is why I ask. Kimonos are worn by men and women. Its also Japanese in origin so it wouldn't consider it any sort of broadly Asian reference. Of course if people are taking it as such, I wouldn't use it.
Re:The Long-Term Stock Exchange Opens for Business by throwaway0a5e on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @10:45AM (#24421583)
>"The issue with 'off the reservation' and similar phrases is that these things are said without any thought

If they are said without any thought or connotation then is there really any slight against whatever group is the origin of the phrase?

He could have just has easily said "off in left field" which is arguably a slight against leftists and commies but has so long been a colloquialism that it has lost that connotation.

Re:The Long-Term Stock Exchange Opens for Business by mikepurvis on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @11:12AM (#24421912)
The name of the Washington football team was also used "without any thought", and that there was no need to change it as it wasn't meant as a slight against the group for whom the name is a slur. But it turns out that these things can be hurtful even if you don't mean them in a nasty way.

But yeah, "off in left field" is a baseball thing; no one is harmed or offended by that— even if you do apply it to politics or use it in a political context, as the WP article briefly mentions, politics are something you choose, not your cultural identity, so it really isn't the same thing at all: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out_of_left_field

Another interesting case is the phrase "balls to the wall" which has a harmless origin with aeronautics, but is spicy enough on account of an obvious alternative interpretation that it isn't used in polite company.

Re:The Long-Term Stock Exchange Opens for Business by cthalupa on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @11:35AM (#24422145)
The first is a phrase steeped in the genocide of indigenous people.

Off in left field is a baseball analogy and has nothing to do with people left of center politically.