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Re:FBI examined Google records to see if anyone had knowledg... by Aerroon on Friday September 04, 2020 @08:13PM (#24380251)
I think the reason most people are fine is because they don't see the danger or don't feel that it's real. It's the "it won't happen to me" attitude. But when someone innocent gets caught up in it, then it's too late and there's no remedy.
Re:FBI examined Google records to see if anyone had knowledg... by jariel on Friday September 04, 2020 @09:15PM (#24380609)
The reason people are 'fine' with it, is because it's a rational response to a real concern.

Guccifer was hacking into people's accounts, revealing information of a national interest.

So there is some proportional reaction by law enforcement.

"But when someone innocent gets caught up in it, then it's too late and there's no remedy."

Who are these innocents 'caught up in it', for which there 'no remedy'?

It's possible investigators make mistakes while matching DNA just as well, but we don't deny them the right, because it seems the 'science' supports DNA as evidence. So we use it.

I think that is a real but smaller concern - bigger concerns are large dragnets (arbitrary data collection), lack of oversight (no warrants), lack of proportionality (i.e. local Police getting access to all your searches because someone made a 'noise complaint'), and politicization (i.e. Trump getting search records on political enemies etc.).

[dead]
Re:FBI examined Google records to see if anyone had knowledg... by XMPPwocky on Friday September 04, 2020 @10:54PM (#24381037)
Aha! Criminals don't deserve rights, that makes sense. Only law-abiding citizens do. Now, how do we tell the two apart? Well, we'll just watch everybody to see if they're a criminal or if they're not. But how do we know if we can watch somebody (and infringe on their right to privacy, if they're a law-abiding citizen) if we don't know whether they're a criminal or not? Hmmm....
Re:FBI examined Google records to see if anyone had knowledg... by pbhjpbhj on Friday September 04, 2020 @08:43PM (#24380438)
Like, what if someone finds out they support BLM, drink cola, shop online, and watch movies over the internet, ... oh the horror!

My impression is half of HN are into some sort of espionage or something. 50% of people's darkest secret is they sniff their hand after scratching their arse; and they do that in front of everyone without batting an eyelid.

"But what if they get caught up in something", like what, the scandal over who ate the last snack in the break room?

Re:FBI examined Google records to see if anyone had knowledg... by strken on Friday September 04, 2020 @08:58PM (#24380526)
What if you are:

A) gay, and in the closet?

B) a recreational drug user?

C) an activist for a movement the government doesn't like?

D) a supporter of C)?

There's also the problem of selective enforcement. Nearly everyone has done something wrong at some point, even if it was a minor traffic offence. If surveillance is good enough, the government will have dirt on close to 100% of people, leaving it in the position of being able to dig up decades of minor offences whenever it doesn't like you.

Re:FBI examined Google records to see if anyone had knowledg... by Aerroon on Sunday September 06, 2020 @12:13AM (#24388912)
Selective enforcement is the big one. Our society simply isn't suited for everyone knowing what everyone else is doing. Even if our laws somehow didn't suffer from selective enforcement, people who find some (legal) things that you do immoral can still use that to justify trying to harm you.
Re:FBI examined Google records to see if anyone had knowledg... by joshuamorton on Friday September 04, 2020 @08:50PM (#24380481)
There are places in the US where one can face significant discrimination (and danger) for being gay or trans, or for questioning their religion. While I'm not as extreme as many on HN about the issue, there are real privacy concerns for many people.
Re:FBI examined Google records to see if anyone had knowledg... by pbhjpbhj on Friday September 04, 2020 @09:18PM (#24380617)
I'm not doubting some people have secrets that they genuinely need to keep, some people are honest-to-goodness terrorists, for example.

Just the narrative that suggests all people should be worried about secrecy; I'll warrant most people's secrets wouldn't cause enough of a stir to dissolve a sugar lump in a hot cup of tea.

Re:FBI examined Google records to see if anyone had knowledg... by XMPPwocky on Friday September 04, 2020 @10:48PM (#24381019)
Mind posting a picture of yourself, from the front, fully nude? And your home address, or at least zip code, too. Shouldn't take too long to do. Not picky about quality, either- a phone camera will be more than fine. But make sure your face is in the shot, of course.

If you don't want to post it publically, let me know and I'll create a temporary email to send it to. I'll be sure to delete it after verifying it.

...

Do you feel disgust in reaction to that request? I suspect most people would.

But why? It's not like it's anything sensitive, like a password. I mean...if you don't send the picture, what are you trying to hide? Are you a terrorist? I'm not even a government agent- I don't have the power to throw you in jail.

But, turns out, even when you don't have anything to hide, there's still some things you don't want to share. That's just human.

Re:FBI examined Google records to see if anyone had knowledg... by pbhjpbhj on Saturday September 05, 2020 @06:09PM (#24387249)
I knew someone would take that line - I've been naked in public, but that's different to actively passing information to someone with an axe to grind.

Not wanting to send you a picture is pretty orthogonal to worrying about the off chance that some gov official will at some point see me naked.

What address do you want me to send to?

Re:FBI examined Google records to see if anyone had knowledg... by giantDinosaur on Friday September 04, 2020 @10:47PM (#24381012)
You're warranting that, but since you don't know people's secrets, how can you possibly make that determination? With some creativity I can think of many wonderful ways to find out and construct monsters of relatively minor things - the conversations people are willing to have in private are massively different from what they'll go on record saying. How can you not have encountered this difference? Can you really not imagine how even the most innocent of statements or criticisms can be construed by a paranoid power in the worst possible light?
Re:FBI examined Google records to see if anyone had knowledg... by pbhjpbhj on Saturday September 05, 2020 @06:05PM (#24387221)
>since you don't know people's secrets, how can you possibly make that determination? //

It's a conversation. You can tell me everyone you know has secretly murdered at least one person and progress things somewhat (I'm being flippant, of course).

Saying things in public is not "being on record" though. Someone has to make the effort to look up about you, and we all wore a stupid costume, got drunk and made a pass at someone, dropped some litter, swore, or whatever ... in a Western Democracy are you going to shame me for normal behaviours, I think you'll struggle.

>Can you really not imagine how even the most innocent of statements or criticisms can be construed by a paranoid power in the worst possible light? //

Yes, what's the motivation? Fascist takeover? We're all in the same boat aren't we: OMG my neighbor looked at porn, let's burn him at the stake??

Re:FBI examined Google records to see if anyone had knowledg... by giantDinosaur on Saturday September 05, 2020 @11:21PM (#24388700)
Sorry, I'm not interested in you making a determination that the private lives and conversations of others are similar to yours, nor do I accept any premise that simply because you've judged people to 'not be terrorists' and the risk of governmental abuse to be low, that there is no real risk of agencies abusing such data. Your justifications are personal, and frankly, should have no bearing on other people's lives. If you can't imagine real cases of private conversation (or DNS lookups, or whatever) being used to profile and target particular groups for fairly undemocratic reasons, then that's a failure of your imagination. We are not all in the same boat, especially if by 'boat' you mean we all socialise with the same people, have the same political beliefs and actions, or even share our sexual orientation.
Re:FBI examined Google records to see if anyone had knowledg... by yibg on Friday September 04, 2020 @11:13PM (#24381133)
What do you consider secrets people genuinely need to keep? And who determines what is considered genuinely need to keep? Also telling you jump directly from genuinely need to keep straight to being terrorists.

Secrets don’t just need to be incriminating, they can also just be embarrassing. People don’t want the world to know they are secretly seeing a lover, or watch a specific type of porn or spend half their time at work browsing HN. Some of those will have real life ramifications.

Re:FBI examined Google records to see if anyone had knowledg... by quickthrower2 on Friday September 04, 2020 @11:38PM (#24381245)
I challenge anyone who claims they have no secrets to upload all their cloud files and hard disks inc. browser history and cookies to a s3 blob and share a link on HN.
Re:FBI examined Google records to see if anyone had knowledg... by grugagag on Saturday September 05, 2020 @12:24AM (#24381401)
Sometimes people aren't aware what can be pieced together from the information they haven't the need to hide.
Re:FBI examined Google records to see if anyone had knowledg... by tester756 on Friday September 04, 2020 @09:06PM (#24380566)
>finds out they support BLM

better, what if they find that they don't support BLM!

Re:FBI examined Google records to see if anyone had knowledg... by pbhjpbhj on Friday September 04, 2020 @09:10PM (#24380590)
Maybe by looking at the flag outside your house?