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Re:Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' c... by 37383265253 on Wednesday September 02, 2020 @08:15PM (#24359643)
Why would you prosecute people who were given permission by the relevant authorities?

>The call-tracking effort began without court authorization under President George W. Bush following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.<

So the PotUS gave them the authority.

>A similar program was approved by the secretive FISA Court beginning in 2006 and renewed numerous times, but the 9th Circuit panel said those rulings were legally flawed.<

So in this instance the IC was still operating under the authority of the FISA court. Whether the court came to the right conclusions or not is irrelevant to whether or not the agencies were bound to following those conclusions.

>The metadata program was officially shut down in 2015 after Congress passed the USA FREEDOM Act, which provided a new mechanism where phone providers retained their data instead of turning it over to the government. The revamped system appears to have been abandoned by the NSA in 2018 or 2019.<

So the programs being discussed have already been terminated. What more would you have done? Are we going to prosecute judges for making rulings we disagree with?

>The American Civil Liberties Union hailed the decision as "a victory for our privacy rights," though the left-leaning group said it was "disappointed that, having found the surveillance of Mr. Moalin unlawful, the court declined to order suppression of the illegally obtained evidence in his case."<

As an aside, it's wildly funny to me that the ACLU won't defend free speech anymore but they'll defend terrorists and their supporters.

Re:Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' c... by alasdair_ on Wednesday September 02, 2020 @10:42PM (#24360366)
> Why would you prosecute people who were given permission by the relevant authorities?

Because the “relevant authorities” didn’t have the legal right to give that permission.

No one is allowed to decide to torture people - it’s illegal even if your boss says it’s okay.

Re:Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' c... by ClumsyPilot on Thursday September 03, 2020 @06:50AM (#24362711)
> "defend terrorists and their supporters"

So in your mind, as soon as someone is accused of being a terrorist, no proof is needed. You can just proceed straight to torture.

Oh boy, I wonder if such a system could even be abused? You are basically supporting Gulags and because you think it can't possibly happen to you.

> Why would you prosecute people who were given permission by the relevant authorities?

Nuremberg trials, just following orders?

Re:Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' c... by darkarmani on Wednesday September 02, 2020 @08:36PM (#24359758)
> As an aside, it's wildly funny to me that the ACLU won't defend free speech anymore but they'll defend terrorists and their supporters.

When has the ACLU stopped defending free speech? They defend convicted terrorists or alleged terrorists?

Re:Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' c... by koolba on Wednesday September 02, 2020 @09:27PM (#24360038)
The ACLU’s moral compass needle has been wobbling for a while now, and it broke off completely after Trump was elected. They realized that they collect significantly more donations by framing themselves as champion of leftist ideals rather than the original purpose of defending actual civil liberties.
Re:Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' c... by freen on Wednesday September 02, 2020 @10:12PM (#24360247)
I find your lack of evidence unsurprising.
Re:Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' c... by morsch on Thursday September 03, 2020 @02:00AM (#24361142)
1: ACLU gained membership after Trump was elected. So?

2: ACLU is not a strong proponent of individual gun ownership, according to the article this has been true for at least 30 years.

3: Article makes far reaching claim in headline but mostly focuses about a single issue, the changes to title IX. Clearly the author disagrees with the ACLU, but the article doesn't give any context on the issue. It's hard to tell if it really is an uncharacteristic position for them to take. I think the heritage foundation has hated the ACLU for a very long time, so that's consistent.

Re:Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' c... by indrax on Wednesday September 02, 2020 @10:26PM (#24360306)
Re:Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' c... by lawnchair_larry on Thursday September 03, 2020 @11:53AM (#24365259)
Not sure why he is getting downvoted, this is accurate. They used to defend free speech rights for abhorrent people whose positions they strongly opposed like KKK members and Neo-Nazis, on principle. They are now entirely focused on left activism.
Re:Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' c... by smolder on Friday September 04, 2020 @09:54AM (#24374926)
Are there examples of the ACLU declining to defend free speech for KKK members/neo Nazis that would illustrate this? Is it possible there haven't been any meritous "censorship of a Nazi" cases for them to help with since the last time?
Re:Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' c... by ncmncm on Wednesday September 02, 2020 @08:59PM (#24359882)
The POTUS does not have any such lawful authority. And they knew he didn't.
Re:Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' c... by dralley on Wednesday September 02, 2020 @09:06PM (#24359923)
>> You're putting your signature on this document, and you know that there are major elements of the leadership of the DOJ that says this is illegal?

>No, they never said that it was illegal. And Jack was always very careful in saying: "We're not saying what the government has done is illegal. We're just saying we can't find any legal basis for this." And there's a difference. There is a difference.

>I did it because I wanted to protect the president. That's why I signed that document. And I felt that there was a legal basis to sign that document. I thought it was necessary to provide that signature.

Former Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez explaining why he signed his name to an order that had no legal basis.

Re:Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' c... by russler23 on Wednesday September 02, 2020 @08:42PM (#24359795)
You’re overlooking that each office has a scope of authority. The relevant authority in this case is the Constitution, unless we are no longer a nation of law.
Re:Ninth Circuit rules NSA's bulk collection of Americans' c... by harimau777 on Wednesday September 02, 2020 @09:42PM (#24360096)
Traditionally, "I was following orders" has not held up well.