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Re:Telegram messaging app proves crucial to Belarus protests by AnimalMuppet on Friday August 21, 2020 @12:42PM (#24236472)
Long-preparing revolutionaries need a way to communicate and coordinate with a bunch of people who suddenly see things their way. The government often tries to jam the lines of communication, so some alternate form of communication is often critical.
Re:Telegram messaging app proves crucial to Belarus protests by jessaustin on Friday August 21, 2020 @12:45PM (#24236509)
Indeed, from TFA:

...authorities shut off the internet, leaving Belarusians with almost no access to independent online news outlets or social media and protesters seemingly without a leader. That’s where Telegram — which often remains available despite internet outages, touts the security of messages shared in the app and has been used in other protest movements — came in. Some of its channels helped unconnected, scattered rallies mature into well-coordinated action.

Re:Telegram messaging app proves crucial to Belarus protests by ceeniwer on Friday August 21, 2020 @12:51PM (#24236577)
I wonder why is it that folks in Hong Kong, xinjiang and Tibet can’t effectively work together using telegram to start a massive nation wide riot. There are so many Folks in those regions who are oppressed (millions) and they are being organ harvested, forced to work in factories as slave labor, held in concentration camps, disappeared without trials, and tortured for democratic ideals.

Or these folks can coordinate with protestors in other parts of the world, to raise awareness and stop consumers from buying from a dictatorship.

Re:Telegram messaging app proves crucial to Belarus protests by chongli on Friday August 21, 2020 @02:01PM (#24237297)
People who would be interested in rioting generally don't show up to riot unless they can be sure there are a lot of other people who will do so as well. A "one-man riot" is just a stupid vandal the police have no trouble arresting. And so communication of intent to riot is not really enough. There's a coordination problem akin to a massive game of chicken that needs to be solved.

Usually, the way this problem is overcome is that rioters show up to peaceful protests and engage in a sort of signalling game to other would-be rioters. The usual trigger to begin the riot is the sound of shattering glass. Until someone is ready to throw that first brick, you aren't likely to see much of anything.

Authoritarian countries know all this and they try very hard to prevent riots by banning all peaceful protests. Much harder to start a riot when there aren't any people on the streets to give cover.

Re:Telegram messaging app proves crucial to Belarus protests by FpUser on Friday August 21, 2020 @01:29PM (#24236988)
>"to start a massive nation wide riot"

- Keyboard warrior? This is a crime in any country including the the US. Can you imagine what it will do to you in a country like China?

>"Or these folks can coordinate with protesters in other parts of the world, to raise awareness and stop consumers from buying from a dictatorship."

- What prevents you from not buying from a dictatorship now? Do you need to be directed by people from Tibet about it?

Re:Telegram messaging app proves crucial to Belarus protests by robjan on Friday August 21, 2020 @01:52PM (#24237213)
The protests in Hong Kong are organised over Telegram but there is not much appetite for rioting thankfully.
Re:Telegram messaging app proves crucial to Belarus protests by Mediterraneo10 on Friday August 21, 2020 @01:08PM (#24236778)
In Xinjiang, the Uighur population are obliged to run a version of Android with surveillance software installed on it that is constantly phoning home about all activity on the device. So, even if it were possible to install a chat app that evades the Great Firewall, everything that one reads and types on that phone would still be sent on to the authorities regardless. Belarus is a dictatorship, but far less authoritarian in the digital realm than Xinjiang.
Re:Telegram messaging app proves crucial to Belarus protests by postmodernbrute on Friday August 21, 2020 @01:33PM (#24237023)
Protesters in Hong Kong have been using Telegram. And they did use it to start a massive city wide riot.
Re:Telegram messaging app proves crucial to Belarus protests by shawnz on Friday August 21, 2020 @12:55PM (#24236626)
Telegram provides, at best, equal security and ease-of-use to previously existing solutions like Signal and Whatsapp, and in many cases worse security. Telegram didn't do anything to make this kind of technology more accessible or available.

So, the fact that it happens to be a popular solution for encrypted chat right now doesn't really speak to its necessity for any revolution like you and the article seem to be implying. Easy access to encryption technology in general, sure, but that doesn't specifically need to be Telegram.

Re:Telegram messaging app proves crucial to Belarus protests by renewiltord on Friday August 21, 2020 @01:38PM (#24237074)
No, you guys always miss the important things. It's that Telegram has social features. It's that Telegram operates under harsher network conditions. It's that other people have Telegram for these reasons.

This is the rsync v Dropbox of messaging applications.

Re:Telegram messaging app proves crucial to Belarus protests by shawnz on Friday August 21, 2020 @02:00PM (#24237284)
> It's that Telegram has social features.

Yes, unencrypted social features that could just as easily be serviced by any other social networking app which hasn't been explicitly banned yet (and that could happen to Telegram at any time).

> It's that Telegram operates under harsher network conditions.

So their operators claim. But it's not clear why that would be true and I haven't seen any numbers to demonstrate it either. Have you?

Re:Telegram messaging app proves crucial to Belarus protests by Integer on Friday August 21, 2020 @04:40PM (#24238664)
>So their operators claim. But it's not clear why that would be true and I haven't seen any numbers to demonstrate it either. Have you?

Telegram had to survive Russia's attempt to ban it, so it evolved a number of strategies: using push notifications to deliver IP-adresses of not-yet-blocked servers, using socks-proxies, the evolution of the MTProto Proxy encrypted protocol, and finally resorting to steganography to mimic ordinary https traffic, thus evading the DPI.

The attempts of the state censorship agency to block the telegram servers were hilarious to watch: at one point they had 0.5% of the IPv4 address space banned, and broke a lot of stuff (AWS, Google, DigitalOcean, OVH, etc). Telegram was still working, of course.

Re:Telegram messaging app proves crucial to Belarus protests by maqp on Saturday August 22, 2020 @04:37AM (#24242703)
Belarus isn't Russia however, they can most likely take down a lot more of the internet just to "bring order to chaos".

The IP-address delivery via push notification was a nice idea, if they'd only be on that level with their E2EE deployment.

Re:Telegram messaging app proves crucial to Belarus protests by ClumsyPilot on Friday August 21, 2020 @03:20PM (#24238005)
Of course you are not going to see them if you are not looking. Maybe you could loo at have literally an entire country where it's the only messaging app still working. And previous attempt to block it in Russia.
Re:Telegram messaging app proves crucial to Belarus protests by stjohnswarts on Friday August 21, 2020 @01:31PM (#24237004)
Some of the features of Telegram are helping them to do this, some stuff that signal is definitely lacking. for small groups and one to one signal is great, especially security wise, but the location and room functions of Telegram here are overshadowing it, even if it has inferior security and is much more proprietary.
Re:Telegram messaging app proves crucial to Belarus protests by literallycancer on Friday August 21, 2020 @01:34PM (#24237033)
Show me a Signal channel with 2 million people in it. Even if it's only writeable by the channel owner.

The adversary in their case is mostly limited to beating up random people and picking on those that take a public stand against the regime.

Turns out it's more important that it works at all and not whether the security is perfect.

Re:Telegram messaging app proves crucial to Belarus protests by maqp on Saturday August 22, 2020 @04:42AM (#24242723)
Channels != group chats != supergroups.

Supergroups and channels don't have expectation of privacy. They're not about protecting the content but about spreading sousveillance material, message etc. There only your anonymity matters so you can be safe with burner SIM + burner phone + Tor.

But immediately when you step into realm of confidentiality E2EE matters and Telegram becomes a piece of shit software. No E2EE for groups, desktop clients, or for anything by default. Small dissident groups greatly benefit from E2EE when Belarusian government can't read their conversation by just hacking a single server.

Both are important. Signal isn't about non-private mass-messaging like channels and supergroups so it's not going to offer those. Telegram could be fantastic for channels and supergroups if it used Tor by default and didn't ask for phone number. But it doesn't, and it tries to do too many things while ignoring too many security problems. Turns out that's a recipe to a disaster. See e.g. how CCA tracked Telegram users in Hong Kong, and how Telegram failed to enable the protective measures for users by default.

Re:Telegram messaging app proves crucial to Belarus protests by shawnz on Friday August 21, 2020 @02:06PM (#24237331)
Show me an E2E encrypted Telegram channel with 2 million people in it, or it's not a fair comparison. There are lots of unencrypted social media apps which can support groups of 2 million, just like Telegram.
Re:Telegram messaging app proves crucial to Belarus protests by postmodernbrute on Friday August 21, 2020 @02:08PM (#24237354)
Why do you consider Signal & WhatsApp, but not Telegram, to be the acceptable “pre-existing” solution? Because you are used to them in the West?