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Re:Rideshare operations are being suspended in California by jawns on Thursday August 20, 2020 @02:58PM (#24227205)
This is not the only way to employ workers, though.

We often think of "on the clock" employment in terms of shift work, where the worker has a scheduled, fixed-length shift with a single employer, and whether they're actively working during that time or waiting around for the employer to tell them what to do next, they're paid for the hours on the clock.

But it is possible for ridesharing companies to employ workers in "micro-shifts" that last the duration of a single ride.

So, Driver X has two part-time jobs: as a part-time employee of Lyft and a part-time employee of Uber. Driver X is ready to work, so checks the apps, and sees there's a Lyft assignment available. Driver X accepts the ride, and for the duration of that ride, he is working exclusively for Lyft, and Lyft pays him for the time worked. Once that ride ends, his micro-shift with Lyft ends, and he's now available to work for either of his part-time jobs again.

The idea of micro-shifts may seem, at first blush, more like a contractor relationship than an employee relationship. And in the past, gigs that used this model were more likely to involve a contractor relationship -- but they also gave the contractor much more freedom in terms of HOW they accomplished the work.

In contrast, if you look at Uber and Lyft, ignoring the micro-shift aspect, there is very little difference between how those jobs work and how other service-oriented part-time jobs work, in terms of the power the employer has to dictate HOW the work gets done.

Re:Rideshare operations are being suspended in California by twobeararms on Thursday August 20, 2020 @03:17PM (#24227475)
In California though an issue with your "micros-shifts" is that California State Laws would apply things like call in pay for this and would also have to pay minimum hours for an employee showing up for a short shift. If an employee gets called in to do 30 minutes of work, the company has to pay the employee at least a certain amount of hours I think it's 2 or 4. So that micro shift of a 10 minute ride, Uber/Lyft would have to pay them 2-4 hours wages at a minimum. So the micro-shifts wouldn't work with current state laws. https://www.employmentlawhandbook.com/wage-and-hour-laws/sta...
Re:Rideshare operations are being suspended in California by lokar on Thursday August 20, 2020 @03:23PM (#24227549)
That seems like a reasonable thing to change in the law
Re:Rideshare operations are being suspended in California by jawns on Thursday August 20, 2020 @03:29PM (#24227644)
Yeah, I would much rather see lawmakers recognize that ridesharing workers are employees, and change the law to accommodate micro-shifts, than to say that because micro-shifts go against existing law, ridesharing workers can't possibly be employees.

That said, there is certainly a good reason for minimum-length shifts and on-call payments in other industries, so I'm willing to acknowledge that striking the right balance that protects workers across the board might be difficult.

Re:Rideshare operations are being suspended in California by idoh on Thursday August 20, 2020 @03:13PM (#24227422)
This idea of micro-shifts sounds made up. Can you reference any companies that have this setup as an employer-employee relationship?
Re:Rideshare operations are being suspended in California by xzel on Thursday August 20, 2020 @03:18PM (#24227489)
I've done tutoring for people in small increments like 15-30 minutes for questions before tests. That seems similar to micro-shifts though that is freelance. Lawyers have billable hours and work for multiple clients. Some firms do have compensation tied to billable hours as well. While it's not exactly the same thing the result feels similar to me.
Re:Rideshare operations are being suspended in California by function_seven on Thursday August 20, 2020 @03:23PM (#24227552)
Both of those examples aren't similar at at all.

Your freelance tutoring is not employer/employee work. You're a freelancer. You set your own hours and rates.

Lawyers do not work for multiple law firms, choosing which firm to work for as they see fit. Whereas drivers very often work for both Lyft and Uber (and Postmates or Grubhub, etc) at the same time.

Re:Rideshare operations are being suspended in California by xzel on Thursday August 20, 2020 @03:29PM (#24227642)
Yes neither of my examples were exactly the same. I'm talking about feel and results and specifically I wasn't talking about how current drivers operate, I was talking about how the resulting circumstance might exist in the future.

But to go back to the tutoring example: if I was working for a tutoring company, agreed to take clients between lets say 1-5 PM, and the rate was set by the company, would that be similar enough?

Re:Rideshare operations are being suspended in California by sushid on Thursday August 20, 2020 @04:02PM (#24228137)
No, you're a contractor in that example. There are high fixed costs to hiring an employee. You're not going to get anyone on board with these micro-shifts, period.
Re:Rideshare operations are being suspended in California by Anon1096 on Thursday August 20, 2020 @03:33PM (#24227687)
No, because tutoring companies don't give "microshifts" for this exact reason.
Re:Rideshare operations are being suspended in California by mumblemumble on Thursday August 20, 2020 @03:22PM (#24227548)
All that is true, but remember that we're operating within the realm of legal terminology here.

What the word "employee" means within the context of California labor laws is probably quite different from what we understand it to mean in everyday conversation. What one can imagine might work in an abstract sense may not be even remotely possible within California's legal framework. What is known to already happen and work well in other states isn't necessarily possible in California, either. (At least not without getting the legislature involved.)

Re:Rideshare operations are being suspended in California by smsm42 on Thursday August 20, 2020 @03:32PM (#24227672)
Lawyers that do billable hours aren't the employees of the client they bill. So you actually are proving the point opposite to what you wanted to prove.
Re:Rideshare operations are being suspended in California by xzel on Thursday August 20, 2020 @04:00PM (#24228097)
I'm not trying to prove anything, just exploring. Anyways, I'm talking about the result. I also don't know enough about CA employe law to make any claims, which I don't think I did.