> "Keep your distance, wear a mask, and stick to small groups" is not the same as "do not socialize".

Ok, but then we have people doing solo activities, all by themselves, minding their own business -- getting arrested by lunatics[1] because we said no beach allowed during Covid[2]!

How do we reconcile that?

[1] https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-04-03/paddle-b...

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpsaSfoqUtU

> April 3, 2020

You'll find California (and everywhere else) has loosened up substantially on outdoor activities, as we have substantially more information in recent months on outdoor versus indoor transmission. We've learned a lot since April about COVID-19.

Even during the height of beach-chasing in the LA area, it was well known being outdoors was far safer than being stuck indoors.

It wasn't about safety. Arresting a lone surfer or lone beach jogger isn't about safety. It's about compliance. You must comply.

people who act like joggers are the real threat mostly don't exercise, just as people who say things like "I don't understand why people need to get together" mostly are introverts, people who think the anti-lockdown protestors are lunatics generally don't own brick and mortor businesses, etc. people are scared and want someone to blame, ideally someone who isn't like them. and it's naturally much easier to see the things you do as essential, but the things you don't do as nonessential

Maybe some people think enforcing compliance is about safety.

This whole discussion is absurd. If people actually did comply, then they wouldn't get arrested and we would have had a far more successful outcome nationwide.

No one (statistically) was spreading it at the beach, so all the hand-wringing and blaming now and then that you're engaging in has shown to be arrogant and incorrect.

> because we said no beach allowed during Covid

We said "No beach during Covid" because a bunch of lunatics flooded the open beaches.

And while the beach may not be a problem, those same lunatics flood the gas stations, Walmarts, etc. and DON'T WEAR MASKS.

In addition, California never really locked down. California has almost continuously had an R0 above 1.0. Mostly due to the lunatics in Southern California.

If you want to open the beaches and arrest anybody not local, fine. The problem with THAT is that you now have to patrol for it--which creates in-person contact.

So, we shut the beaches completely. Sorry you can't surf. Tell your population cohort to wear your masks and stay the hell out of parties and maybe California will get below R0 one day.

Or not. And this crap can continue until we get a vaccine.

Why is it not OK to jog on the beach by yourself? You don't seem to have an answer for that.

Don't allow large gatherings? OK fine, I might object to this, but I can see the other side at least.

Not allowing individuals to do individual activities? That seems misguided at best.

After all, we do allow Ice Cream Parlors to be open, and outdoor seating at restaurants where you sit in close proximity to other people who are not wearing masks... how is that better than jogging on the beach all by yourself?

They aren't better, and none of this is actually about safety nor is it about "Flattening the Curve" anymore. We flattened the curve long, long ago.

No, it's not about safety, it's about compliance. You will comply, regardless of how illogical or contradictory certain County Health Official Edicts are.

> Not allowing individuals to do individual activities? That seems misguided at best.

Please reread my post. I already told you what the problem was.

A zillion people flooded the open beaches. The problem is that those zillion people then go places other than the beach and spread Covid.

The only real way to prevent that is to simply close the beach. Yes, that sucks for locals. So far, you have not presented an alternative solution. "Reopen the things!" is NOT a solution--it's idiocy.

However, you know what sucks more for locals? Getting Covid 19 from a bunch of out-of-towners because you work at the grocery stores, gas stations, etc. that they all flood after the beach.

Stop being a selfish prat. If you just have to be outdoors, go hike the mountains.

> I already told you

> it's idiocy.

> Stop being a selfish prat

Wow, that's quite an aggressive response, no?

The solution to your problem is to not allow large gatherings on the beach. That's pretty simple, right? We're doing that already everywhere else - lines to get into stores, etc. Or enforce wearing a mask? There's plenty of ways to do this that don't result in a squad of cops running down a solo jogger, or a task force of patrol boats and helicopters for a solo surfer... just because the Mayor or County Health Official said it must be so!

So, what's wrong, for the 3rd time, with a solo jogger on the beach, with nobody around them?

The answer, for a 3rd time, is nothing.

> However, you know what sucks more for locals? Getting Covid 19 from a bunch of out-of-towners

You really think that risk doesn't exist for locals going to grocery stores too? Touching a can of food, then putting it back on the shelf? Handling paper money, grocery bags, etc.

What we have here are not rules for the sake of safety. What we have here are not rules for the sake of "Flattening the Curve".

No, we have rules for the sake of rules. They make some people feel safer, even though there's zero evidence to suggest they are effective at achieving their intended goals. The reason people are disobeying these "orders" is because the government has not done a sufficient job convincing people the rules are based on logic and actual science, not "science" and politics.

It is not inherently more risky to jog on the beach by yourself than to go sit at an outdoor restaurant, no mask, and be around a bunch of other people.

It would be intellectually dishonest to argue otherwise. Yet, here we are.

I think you're being really unreasonable here. He's not saying he went to a flood of people at the beach. He's saying that should not be allowed, and is asking why he should not be allowed to go jogging on the beach alone. Emphasizing the word AFTER doesn't make any sense.

I think you're both kind of right.

There are ads on pretty much every medium that say "Stay Home", which is not at all what you're describing. To say "nobody is saying do not socialize" is untrue, but to say "We're not allowed to socialize" is also untrue.

Considering most states have been in full on shelter in place lock down mode, there aren't many places people can socialize anyways.

All of the normal places where you see people socialize have bee closed or went out business. Restaurants, bars, night clubs, sporting events, live music (festivals and stadiums) and many, many others.

It would be one thing to conform to what your saying, but its become hard if not impossible to find safe places where people CAN socialize, so they take what they get regardless of the risks to them or others.

Parks? Backyards? A walk around the neighborhood? Outdoor dining?

If you can't socialize outside a bar, that's on you.

I had just graduated college and moved to a new city on a new coast before lockdowns started. I essentially have no in-person social network to speak of, currently. My parents lived overseas up until a month ago. Folks my age (early 20s) are happy to socialize with their established friends. Less so with strangers. All the places shut down are the standard avenues for folks like me to meet new people. I was entirely alone for 4 months. My life was hell. And all the while my company talks about difficulties being at home with family, and figuring out childcare (and has freed up resources to help their employees do so). No mention, ever, of any effort to establish meetups for low-risk, early-career employees, not that I'd expect that. No one particularly cares about people in my situation (not that rare).

Comments like this and the ever popular "it's just a mask!" show a remarkable lack of awareness and understanding. Yes, that's perhaps overly selfish of me. Yes, there are people at serious risk, and many people dying or developing life-long serious complications. But this has been the worst period in my entire life, by far. I was regularly, very seriously, suicidal (have since moved back in with my parents now that they're stateside, starting to get better). All the policies and all the talk are oriented around having a network of close relations to fall back on. That doesn't exist for everyone.

I think cases like this are almost completely overlooked. I'm also concerned/saddened by young children who's parents just moved to a new town (moving is not uncommon when many can't afford mortgage/rent due to covid lay offs).

We're going to see pretty significant long term effects to both the economy and children / young people due to a lack of social development.

I couldn't even imagine how shitty being a 20 something in a new city would be now. Dating has to be practically non-existent.

Should say that I'm for and obey covid restrictions in my country (Canada), but I'm amoung the privileged few already working from home, and have a family and kids that keep me busy.

How do you figure on "it's just a mask!"?

the media have consistently demonized people at beaches and parks. Lightfoot fenced off the beaches in Chicago, Newsom did the same in CA. It's ridiculous; and its why people are skeptical of their intentions.

https://twitter.com/zeynep has been very critical of the beach photos thing, and you'll find we're in agreement on that point.

Even in articles about house parties, major media outlets go and grab a beach photo for some reason. It's bad reporting.

In a lot of urban environments access to the obvious outdoor alternatives is pretty limited.

No state in the USA is or has ever been "in full on shelter in place lock down mode" during the pandemic. Many states issued half-assed stay at home orders, which in practice ended up being voluntary and unenforced. Throughout it all, there were people who were out horsing around, doing whatever they wanted, and not facing legal consequences. Vanishingly few people were arrested for violating stay-at-home, despite it being legally enforceable as a misdemeanor. Thankfully most people did their part, but to call it "lock down" is a bit of an exaggeration.

1. There's so much outdoor space to socialize. You make it seem like the choice is between doing it indoors or not doing it at all.

2. Why can't people socialize online? It's even easier nowadays. It might not be the same thing but it can get pretty close.

>2. Why can't people socialize online? It's even easier nowadays. It might not be the same thing but it can get pretty close.

It is not anywhere near close. Video calls transfer speech, tone of voice, and facial expressions at best. Body language is a vital part of face-to-face communication, and there is no video call equivalent of leaning in towards someone or putting your hand on theirs.