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Re:Not everyone needs 8 hours of sleep: new research by IgorPartola on Sunday August 16, 2020 @09:23PM (#24182907)
Having children took me from being able to sleep any time anywhere to having horrible sleep. One of my kids had an incredibly quiet voice in her first three months AND had a habit of spitting up copious amounts when we would put her in her crib. She would start crying and making choking noises but very quietly so I learned to be an incredibly light sleeper. She also would not sleep for the first month unless she was held (she got over it, it wasn’t a big thing, it wasn’t a medical problem, we checked), but it meant that I would stay up holding her and watching TV until 3am and then hand her off to someone else for the rest of the night, getting 4-5 hours of sleep. We sometimes had to keep lights on all night, sometimes TV on to keep adults caring for the kids from falling asleep themselves. It was brutal.

A part of it was the breast is best craze that has taken over parenting. I don’t disagree with it, but also some people just don’t produce enough milk to fully sustain a child and you need to supplement. When our kids were older my partner found out that her doctor actually noted that her breast tissue was likely to not produce sufficient quantities of milk on her medical chart, but failed to ever tell her. Hence feeding the kids 8-12 times a night, times two kids.

As a result years later I now can’t sleep for more than 5 hours a night without waking up and not being able to go back to sleep for an hour or two. I am slowly figuring out ways to combat this but I have yet to find a solution that lets me sleep a full 7-9 hours my body seems to actually need that doesn’t give me a headache or make my drowsy for the rest of the following day. Sometimes being human is a limitation.

Re:Not everyone needs 8 hours of sleep: new research by IpV8 on Monday August 17, 2020 @09:00AM (#24186783)
Fuck all the people responding to with shameful posts about breast feeding being better. I did a fair amount of research into why, and the only conclusive thing a found was that breast feeding increased IQ by like 2 points. That is massively insignificant. IF breastfeeding adds antibodies (which is debated), then that is more than offset by just being careful to not let your child be exposed to the flu. The happiness of your child long term is by far the most important thing, and if being able to sleep better allows you to be more attentive to your child's emotional needs, then that will drastically out way 2 points of IQ. Most people telling you breast milk is better probably have no idea what it is like to feed a baby 8+ times a night and the emotional and physical toll associated with that. That type of situation can make you resent your baby. These people probably read about breast is best on some inlfuencer's blog or are parroting back some advice that their doctor gave them based on their particular situation. A mother who can't breastfeed for physical (or even emotional) reasons doesn't need an arsenal of people explaining to her why she's damaging her baby everywhere she looks to add on to the shame and inadequacy that she already feels. /rant
Re:Not everyone needs 8 hours of sleep: new research by joelvalleroy on Monday August 17, 2020 @11:19AM (#24188092)
I have a buddy who did a few years in the military, in one of the more stressful specialties. He had an especially damaged sleep habit as well from this.

He went to some sort of "sleep therapist", I forget the exact nomenclature. Anyway, he was recommended a series of tips (from limit screen time to everything else you may see online). He found it did help. That sort of service may be worth looking into.

Re:Not everyone needs 8 hours of sleep: new research by mrfusion on Sunday August 16, 2020 @10:15PM (#24183220)
> I now can’t sleep for more than 5 hours a night without waking up and not being able to go back to sleep for an hour or two.

Have you ruled out alcohol? I’ve heard drinking at night can cause that.

Re:Not everyone needs 8 hours of sleep: new research by edoceo on Monday August 17, 2020 @01:55AM (#24184391)
Other sugars too, the blood-sugar drop signals wake up and eat. iIRC
Re:Not everyone needs 8 hours of sleep: new research by IgorPartola on Sunday August 16, 2020 @10:47PM (#24183398)
I don’t drink most days, and if I do I don’t get drunk except maybe once a year.
Re:Not everyone needs 8 hours of sleep: new research by throwaway0a5e on Monday August 17, 2020 @08:31AM (#24186572)
>Have you ruled out alcohol? I’ve heard drinking at night can cause that.

For the over whelming majority of homo-sapiens alcohol tends to increase, not decrease, the propensity to sleep for many hours. Sure there's edge cases but they're rare enough and hard enough to differentiate from other problems that nobody should be trying to diagnose those over the internet.

Re:Not everyone needs 8 hours of sleep: new research by mrfusion on Monday August 17, 2020 @08:56AM (#24186758)
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Re:Not everyone needs 8 hours of sleep: new research by curyous on Sunday August 16, 2020 @11:45PM (#24183712)
Breastfeeding "destroys the tits"? It's literally what they are for. If you can train your child to not bite after teeth start coming through, some women breastfeed for years.

Also, you're wildly overestimating what science can do. With many things relating to the human body, it's like we're in the dark ages. For example, tt wasn't that long ago that Chromium was viewed as unnecessary, but now we know that it is essential for regulation of insulin activity.

Also, in term of "breast is best", breastmilk reduces chances of SIDS. Supplementation with formula should probably be used more than it is, but if you want to have the greatest chance that your baby wakes up, use breastmilk if you can.

Re:Not everyone needs 8 hours of sleep: new research by dongvsascript on Monday August 17, 2020 @02:14PM (#24190041)
This is being purposely dense. The entire planet of men disagrees with you that the only purpose of the breasts is for breasfeeding. I guess sex is only for making babies too. Jesus called, he wants his bible back.
Re:Not everyone needs 8 hours of sleep: new research by dang on Monday August 17, 2020 @02:52PM (#24190490)
We've banned this account. Would you please not create accounts to post flamewar comments to HN? It's not what this site is for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:Not everyone needs 8 hours of sleep: new research by jedberg on Sunday August 16, 2020 @10:40PM (#24183356)
Formula is pretty close but the antibodies are a big deal, especially early on. It’s a good idea to breastfeed or pump if at all possible, but it’s not possible for everyone.

My wife would spend hours pumping (baby wouldn’t latch) and only produce a few ounces. We always started with that and then supplemented with formula. The kids seem fine.

On the idea of a wetnurse being “gross”, do you drink cows milk? Because that’s basically like having your own cow wetnurse. Sharing milk obviously isn’t for everyone, but don’t dismiss it offhand.

Re:Not everyone needs 8 hours of sleep: new research by Vibrelli on Sunday August 16, 2020 @11:57PM (#24183781)
Ingredients aside, the data is very strong on health outcomes for breast fed versus formula fed babies.
Re:Not everyone needs 8 hours of sleep: new research by dongvsascript on Monday August 17, 2020 @02:10AM (#24184463)
ok, so can you link any data that is from an actual scientific peer-reviewed study, which takes out the cases where babies were fed formula with poison in it? because i gotta tell you, in my 3 years of searching -all the real data for a formula that has been analyzed safe by a lab, says formula is just as good as milk.
Re:Not everyone needs 8 hours of sleep: new research by disgruntledphd2 on Monday August 17, 2020 @05:09AM (#24185417)
Google scholar is your friend.

Breat feeding is associated with a (small) difference in IQ: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/apa.13139

Just search breast vs formula milk systematic review on Google scholar and you should be able to find loads of studies.

Re:Not everyone needs 8 hours of sleep: new research by dongvsascript on Monday August 17, 2020 @02:21PM (#24190128)
so, this tells me that in studies that corrected for the mother's iq, the difference was 2.6 points. My wife is asian, i am jewish, with a lot of phds in the family. This is an increase of less than 2%. Sorry, but there's no way I'm going to believe a study like that has an error/variance of under 2%. The studies also did not correct for the father's iq. The father is not serving the breast milk, but iq of the mother is not "passed on" through food, so if you're correcting for mom's iq, you're correcting for genetics, and the father is half of that. None of the studies corrected for quality of formula.
Re:Not everyone needs 8 hours of sleep: new research by disgruntledphd2 on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @11:06AM (#24199523)
Dude, you said there was no research, so I found you research.

What you choose to do with that research is entirely up to you.

Re:Not everyone needs 8 hours of sleep: new research by IgorPartola on Sunday August 16, 2020 @10:43PM (#24183379)
From want I could tell milk is still better simply because basically only the things we’ve identified as nutritionally significant have been added to to it. Imagine a time before we knew what vitamin B is so we didn’t add it to baby formula. Then it turns out it’s not just a thing but actually important. That’s where our understanding of nutrition.

Another concerning thing with formula is how it’s made. For example, one brand of top shelf organic formula used a chemical known to be a neurotoxin but claim that they remove it all before the manufacturing process is complete, while a competing top brand was using palm oil as one ingredient which is know to be an irritant to newborn’s GI system. So it always felt like choosing the lesser of evils.

Re:Not everyone needs 8 hours of sleep: new research by daigoba66 on Sunday August 16, 2020 @10:39PM (#24183349)
Two kids, both on formula from day one. It was probably the right choice for a number of personal factors: we both could easily take turns feeding, it’s easy to know and track how much they’re consuming, and simplified things for eventually going to daycare.

There are certainly people who will discourage you from formula. But you have to make your own choice for yourselves and your baby. But frankly neither choice is “bad”.