News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Mozilla’s Uncertain Future by KingOfCoders on Saturday August 15, 2020 @04:35AM (#24167125)
I left FF several times for being slow, being a memory hog, dropping extensions, not adding power features (vertical tree tabs) and come back from Chrome for ideological reasons. I might not be the core audience or user group, but I have not left because of i.) - iv.).
Re:Mozilla’s Uncertain Future by Lammy on Saturday August 15, 2020 @06:56AM (#24167951)
> not adding power features (vertical tree tabs)

They made a pretty huge deal about the Tab Groups (aka Panorama) feature of Firefox 4 in 2010; designed by Aza Raskin! https://web.archive.org/web/20101105212333/http://www.azaras...

But then it was removed in 2016 because few people really used it (or few people who had telemetry enabled, at least): https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/tab-groups-removal

Re:Mozilla’s Uncertain Future by badsectoracula on Saturday August 15, 2020 @09:16AM (#24168637)
Relying on telemetry has been the biggest mistake developers decided to do in recent years. In the vast majority, only the most technically illiterate will keep telemetry enabled. For anyone with enough knowledge and two braincells to rub together, telemetry is an euphemism for spyware, so of course they'll do everything they can to disable it (also see all the Windows 10 "shut up" scripts, etc - people would rather run random scripts from the net than allow telemetry, even if doing the former isn't exactly that smart to begin with).

Relying on telemetry is heavily biased towards people who do not know what telemetry is.

Re:Mozilla’s Uncertain Future by fartcannon on Saturday August 15, 2020 @08:59AM (#24168536)
Oh jees, is that what's happening? If they're only building for telemetry data, theyre screwed. Gonna end up with a browser for people who think the internet is a series of tubes.
Re:Mozilla’s Uncertain Future by chowells on Saturday August 15, 2020 @11:24AM (#24169515)
You believe developers don't understand telemetry and leave it enabled because it helps development of the tools they use?

This whole anti-telemetry outrage is so manufactured and boring.

Re:Mozilla’s Uncertain Future by csande17 on Saturday August 15, 2020 @01:04PM (#24170362)
I'm a developer, and I disable telemetry whenever possible, including in Firefox. I do this because I value my privacy (the same reason I use Firefox), and I don't want my system to make network requests unnecessarily. The way I see it, there are two possibilities:

(1) A significant portion of Firefox users think like me. In this case, Mozilla should not rely on telemetry because it excludes a sizeable portion of their userbase, and one that likely correlates with things like "believes in Mozilla's stated core philosophy" and "is passionate enough about browsers to recommend them to people".

(2) Not many Firefox users think like me. In this case, it's pointless for me to enable telemetry because they'll just ignore my needs anyway. "It is not worth supporting this feature, the data shows that 99% of people do not use it!" won't change if the number is actually 98.99%.

Re:Mozilla’s Uncertain Future by pikelet on Saturday August 15, 2020 @02:39PM (#24171174)
That's like saying your vote doesn't matter so there's no point in voting.
Re:Mozilla’s Uncertain Future by csande17 on Saturday August 15, 2020 @02:57PM (#24171316)
It would be like saying that, if voting involved putting a machine in my house to report information about my daily activities to the government, and they used that data to attempt to determine which candidates and policies I would prefer without actually consulting me.
Re:Mozilla’s Uncertain Future by hvis on Saturday August 15, 2020 @08:05PM (#24173563)
Re:Mozilla’s Uncertain Future by Lammy on Saturday August 15, 2020 @09:41PM (#24174107)
I was already a full-time Tree Style Tab user by the time FF4 Beta came around in 2010 so I'm probably part of the reason Panorama wasn't popular enough :p
Re:Mozilla’s Uncertain Future by hvis on Sunday August 16, 2020 @06:44AM (#24176745)
There's enough space for both UIs. ;-)

More importantly, it seems both of them have survived the move to Quantum. It was really hard for me to imagine going without Panorama.

Re:Mozilla’s Uncertain Future by forgotpwd16 on Saturday August 15, 2020 @05:35AM (#24167474)
One of the reasons I'm still on Fox is tree-style tabs (with "Tree Style Tab" extension) and being able to hide top tabs (using userChrome.css).
Re:Mozilla’s Uncertain Future by bishalb on Saturday August 15, 2020 @06:25AM (#24167756)
The best things about tabs in Firefoxia the scrollable tab bar. I am not sure why chrome doesn't add this.
Re:Mozilla’s Uncertain Future by emteycz on Saturday August 15, 2020 @10:09AM (#24168962)
Can you imagine having to respond to all these "chrome ate my tabs" tickets?
Re:Mozilla’s Uncertain Future by majewsky on Saturday August 15, 2020 @12:18PM (#24169976)
As if Google ever replies to tickets.
Re:Mozilla’s Uncertain Future by aldanor on Saturday August 15, 2020 @08:30AM (#24168408)
Same here. If TreeStyleTab existed on Chrome (or, hell, even in Safari), I wouldn't care that much which browser to use.
Re:Mozilla’s Uncertain Future by KingOfCoders on Saturday August 15, 2020 @09:54AM (#24168858)
I recently switched to "Simple Tab Groups" after years with "Tree Style Tab" and I do prefer it.
Re:Mozilla’s Uncertain Future by Brakenshire on Saturday August 15, 2020 @04:58AM (#24167237)
I just don’t think there are enough users who care about deep customisation through extensions compared to those who care about speed and stability, and Firefox traded one for the other in adopting a standardised Extensions API, and the changes that allowed in the browser architecture.
Re:Mozilla’s Uncertain Future by ohgodplsno on Saturday August 15, 2020 @04:50AM (#24167204)
> not adding power features (vertical tree tabs)

https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/tree-style-tab/

?

Re:Mozilla’s Uncertain Future by stekern on Saturday August 15, 2020 @05:30AM (#24167438)
I assume the parent means native support for vertical tabs in the browser as opposed to through a third party extension.
Re:Mozilla’s Uncertain Future by KingOfCoders on Saturday August 15, 2020 @09:54AM (#24168865)
a.) Yes

b.) With changing their extension API several times it was not clear the plugin would make it.