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Re:Where the missing middle of housing isn't missing by jeffbee on Wednesday August 12, 2020 @05:20PM (#24137125)
The idea that people prefer detached SFHs is just a talking point used to obscure an agenda. The current agenda is that incumbent landowners profit from scarcity. The old agenda is that SFH zoning excluded minorities. Either one isn't great. There is no evidence of a revealed or stated preference for SFHs among American homebuyers when presented with multiple choices. If people really preferred detached SFHs this strongly, we wouldn't need to enshrine the preference in the law.

The comment elsewhere in this discussion by "enragedcacti" is spot-on: if the law requires everyone to eat black beans, it will seem like everyone strongly prefers black beans.

Re:Where the missing middle of housing isn't missing by notJim on Wednesday August 12, 2020 @06:32PM (#24137842)
> There is no evidence of a revealed or stated preference for SFHs among American homebuyers when presented with multiple choices

In fact, there is strong evidence that at least 2 people in the US prefer SFH when presented with multiple choices: myself, and the person I was replying to. I suspect we are not alone, which you acknowledge elsewhere.

If you want to shift society away from SFH, it might be helpful to engage with some of the reasons people prefer them, and reasons they are wrong. From what I've seen, part of what keeps exclusionary zoning laws in place is that some people think living in multi-family dwellings is inferior to living in SFH[1], and in my comment I was trying to point out the incorrectness of that thinking. I'm confused why you think I shouldn't do so, since it supports your cause. This is just an internet forum where people are talking, so it's not like that precludes other discussion.

By the way, I already upvoted the bean comment, it's a great comment. I think it's okay to talk both about laws and preferences, and their intersection.

[1]: People have made this argument in this very thread, in fact.

Re:Where the missing middle of housing isn't missing by novok on Wednesday August 12, 2020 @08:36PM (#24138786)
Why do you care if other people live in multi unit housing? It's not about making SFH illegal, but making multi-unit way more legal.
Re:Where the missing middle of housing isn't missing by watwut on Thursday August 13, 2020 @03:49AM (#24140948)
But people you argue with are not trying to make single family home illegal. They want to change the regulations so that multi family home are allowed to be build.

The argument is not that no one ever wants to live inside single family home. It is that many people are fine with different housing and dont have such option.

Re:Where the missing middle of housing isn't missing by com2kid on Wednesday August 12, 2020 @09:05PM (#24138975)
The price difference in my area between a townhome and an equivalent sized sfh is a good 20%.

Land had value. You can tear down. SFH and build anything allowed by city code. Want a bigger garage? No problem. New fruit tree out back? Can do.

That flexibility is priced in.

Re:Where the missing middle of housing isn't missing by jeffbee on Wednesday August 12, 2020 @10:10PM (#24139279)
A townhome is by definition a SFH. It just shares a wall with another one. Many townhome dwellers own their home and the land under it and can put in whatever fruit tree they fancy.
Re:Where the missing middle of housing isn't missing by com2kid on Thursday August 13, 2020 @12:29AM (#24139946)
Townhomes are interesting because that isn't always true.

I live in a very large townhome complex much of which is built on top of an underground parking garage. There dozens of townhomes here, intermixed with condos as well.

There isn't any land for me to put a tree on, there is a commonly owned green area (a very nice one!) but people can't plant whatever they want there since it is under common ownership.

I'd say most of the townhome communities around where I am at are arranged like this.

I'm familiar with row houses from traveling to other cities, but I haven't (rarely?) seen anything like that here in the Seattle area.

The latest trend is SFHs built on 3000 sqft lots.

Honestly at that point, a townhome complex with a common yard seems very preferable.

Re:Where the missing middle of housing isn't missing by nullc on Wednesday August 12, 2020 @05:34PM (#24137264)
> There is no evidence of a revealed or stated preference for SFHs among American homebuyers

Are you really arguing that if you asked people many wouldn't state that they would prefer to live in a detached home?

Re:Where the missing middle of housing isn't missing by pchristensen on Wednesday August 12, 2020 @08:43PM (#24138825)
The question isn't "Would people prefer to live in an SFH?", but "Would people prefer to live in an SFH if it were legal to build other housing types, changing the respective cost?" I would obviously prefer to live in a waterfront mansion within walking distance of urban amenities, but that would cost 20-50x what my house cost.

Some people would like the option to save money and buy less housing in an area - see micro apartments. Some people would be willing to spend as much as they can to live in a desirable area, but cannot afford a SFH there so they buy a SFH in a different area. Both of those options are limited by the near omnipresent restrictions on housing types outside of central cities.

Re:Where the missing middle of housing isn't missing by jeffbee on Wednesday August 12, 2020 @05:38PM (#24137308)
Many would, but not the 99.5% that our current zoning laws suggest.
Re:Where the missing middle of housing isn't missing by lokar on Wednesday August 12, 2020 @07:20PM (#24138228)
The issue is not what people prefer to live in. The issue is what owners of SFHs prefer to have next to them.
Re:Where the missing middle of housing isn't missing by nullc on Wednesday August 12, 2020 @08:48PM (#24138865)
That's fair. I was just thrown by the comment suggesting that people didn't actually want them!