News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:One in 10 ballots rejected in last month’s vote-by-mail e... by dmix on Monday August 10, 2020 @05:23PM (#24114150)
Hasn’t this been fought against for ages? There’s a reason it’s a mishmash of state driven solutions instead of one big federal ID database.

Not to mention the groups who fight against using any form of identification at all during voting.

Re:One in 10 ballots rejected in last month’s vote-by-mail e... by slg on Monday August 10, 2020 @05:26PM (#24114173)
Yes, and if you listen to many of the people arguing against it the reason we don't have a national database of citizens is because the one thing stopping the US government from turning into Nazis and committing another genocide is poor record keeping.

EDIT: I am being hyperbolic here, but the second reply to my first comment was doing exactly this. We can't have this database because of the Nazis.

Re:One in 10 ballots rejected in last month’s vote-by-mail e... by lehi on Monday August 10, 2020 @05:39PM (#24114310)
The US Census has already been used to round up Japanese-Americans into internment camps. Post-9/11, the Census has handed over the locations and countries of origin of Arab-Americans to DHS/CBP.
Re:One in 10 ballots rejected in last month’s vote-by-mail e... by slg on Monday August 10, 2020 @05:50PM (#24114426)
The point isn't that the US government has never done anything evil or will never do anything evil again. The point is that you aren't going to stop someone determined to commit evil by making it slightly more administratively difficult. If we fear that eventual evil, let's work to prevent it. Let's stop allowing this potential abuse to be the sole deciding factor against us doing good work today. It didn't stop us when we built the interstate highway system, which was largely built to facilitate military transport, so why should it stop us now?

Also I'm not asking for a database including every possible detail about a person. I see no reason why something like race, ethnicity, religion, sexuality, or an number of other traits should be recorded. But a simple database with names, DOB, most recent address, a national id, etc would be extremely helpful.

Re:One in 10 ballots rejected in last month’s vote-by-mail e... by dane-pgp on Monday August 10, 2020 @07:02PM (#24115151)
> The point is that you aren't going to stop someone determined to commit evil by making it slightly more administratively difficult.

"Both Mayor Karrer and Bishop Chrysostomos were quickly summoned to appear before the German Commandant, where they were ordered to immediately prepare the list of all the Jewish residents of Zakynthos. ... In a great display of courage and defiance to the powerful occupiers of Greece, the mayor and the bishop handed a simple piece of paper to the Nazi commander. On that scrap of paper, only two names were written: Mayor Loukas Kerrer and Bishop Chrysostomos."

https://greece.greekreporter.com/2020/01/25/the-unimaginable...

Re:One in 10 ballots rejected in last month’s vote-by-mail e... by slg on Monday August 10, 2020 @07:15PM (#24115297)
The paper with the two names on it makes for a great story, but it sounds more like that was their public proclamation of the community's actions. What really saved those people was their neighbors hiding them to the point that the article says they "disappeared". In that instance having some names on a piece of paper or in a database in meaningless. The important part is fighting the evil with direction action like this community did.
Re:One in 10 ballots rejected in last month’s vote-by-mail e... by pessimizer on Monday August 10, 2020 @07:53PM (#24115647)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust

"In the book, published in 2001, Black outlined the way in which IBM's technology helped facilitate Nazi genocide through generation and tabulation of punch cards based upon national census data."

I always find it strange how people consider the possibility of certain events far-fetched to the point of irrationality that have already happened.

Re:One in 10 ballots rejected in last month’s vote-by-mail e... by slg on Monday August 10, 2020 @08:14PM (#24115801)
I feel like I am repeating myself now. The point is not that these tools can't be used for evil. The point is that banning these tools does not prevent evil.

Would the Holocaust have happened without IBM's participation?

Would the Holocaust have happened if punch cards were banned?

Would the Holocaust have happened if the Nazis didn't have census data?

The answer to those questions is an obvious yes. These logistical obstacles would have been nothing but a mild inconvenience for the Nazi death machine.

Re:One in 10 ballots rejected in last month’s vote-by-mail e... by whatshisface on Monday August 10, 2020 @05:28PM (#24114195)
There are many abuses for a national database less severe than genocide, and many "apocalypse scenarios" less likely than fascism in the US.
Re:One in 10 ballots rejected in last month’s vote-by-mail e... by slg on Monday August 10, 2020 @05:30PM (#24114222)
I was being hyperbolic much as the people who are against this policy are hyperbolic, but the idea is true at any level of governmental abuse. If we fear government overreach, bad record keeping is never going to offer much protection.
Re:One in 10 ballots rejected in last month’s vote-by-mail e... by behringer on Monday August 10, 2020 @05:25PM (#24114167)
Of course, and it's also completely unnecessary. We are innocent until proven guilty. If I show up at a polling place (or in this case, requesting or mailing a voting packet), show them some sort of identity and address, then I should be able to vote. If you're caught committing voter fraud, you should go to jail. It's simple, and has always been effective.
Re:One in 10 ballots rejected in last month’s vote-by-mail e... by chrisseaton on Monday August 10, 2020 @07:22PM (#24115364)
Do you apply the same standard to your bank account?

Someone with some sort of identity and address should be able to withdraw your bank account until proven guilty?

Re:One in 10 ballots rejected in last month’s vote-by-mail e... by behringer on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @01:19PM (#24122882)
That is the standard applied at banks...
Re:One in 10 ballots rejected in last month’s vote-by-mail e... by chrisseaton on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @01:27PM (#24122996)
No they also ask for a unique identifier (bank number) and an access code (PIN) and a token (bank card). That's three-auth. Two things you have to know and one thing you have to have. That's pretty good.

I think that's what people are suggesting maybe voting should have.

Re:One in 10 ballots rejected in last month’s vote-by-mail e... by behringer on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @04:03PM (#24125315)
Voting does have something like that...
Re:One in 10 ballots rejected in last month’s vote-by-mail e... by burfog on Monday August 10, 2020 @07:41PM (#24115540)
That makes catching people impossible. We can't even determine the level of fraud, so faith in our voting system is eroded. Even if you believe that there is no fraud, you should be deeply concerned that many other people are losing faith in election integrity. Elections are considered fraudulent until proven otherwise.

We certainly could have decently secure elections without ID. Like this: You show up to vote in person, a good photo is taken, and you say who you are. That info is then made public. Political parties and other interested groups can sift through the photos, maybe with an AI, to find any crime.

It's almost perfect. The main trouble is that fraud detection happens after the voting, so a person who doesn't fear prison can do as desired.

Re:One in 10 ballots rejected in last month’s vote-by-mail e... by jones1618 on Thursday August 13, 2020 @10:41PM (#24152614)
Everyone is concentrating on the wrong thing.

There are two possible kinds of voter fraud (both extremely rare), "retail fraud" (i.e. individual voters) and "wholesale fraud" (i.e. bulk fraud). Voter ID laws mostly "fix" a non-existent problem of individual false votes with the express intent of discouraging votes. The real problem you want to fix is "wholesale fraud" which means securing the whole system from voting machines (which should be open-source and paper-audited) to how votes are tallied. Think about it. If you were going to steal votes would you go to all the trouble to forge or hijack individual votes or would you bribe someone to flip a couple of digits at a county office?

Of course, a trustworthy system includes how mail-in votes are tracked and verified but that is a well-understood problem working well for thousands and thousands of absentees, military personnel and whole states full of people who have voted that way regularly for decades.