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Re:Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed by okamiueru on Sunday August 09, 2020 @03:59PM (#24102382)
To be fair, and you even bringing it up, apple products is to some degree the fashion equivalent in tech. I recently had to buy a MacOs compatible hardware for the first time in years, and I had really no idea how large the difference has become. Apple products truly are "way of life", more than anything tangible. And when choosing to upgrade components, I really couldn't believe it. It was more than twice the comparable value. In some cases 8 times. In what other industry are people willing to pay at least more than twice, for the same hardware?
Re:Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed by lotsofpulp on Sunday August 09, 2020 @04:53PM (#24102815)
> In what other industry are people willing to pay at least more than twice, for the same hardware?

The whole premise is incorrect, so the conclusions are incorrect. The hardware is not the same, and even if it was, clearly the software makes a difference to the user.

The whole Apple fashion status trope is tired and has never been true. The amortized cost of an Apple device in my 15 year + experience with them has always been less than the competitors. Especially if you add my troubleshooting time.

Not to mention they’ve been selling iPad Minis for $400 for 7 or 8 years, and they now have an iPhone at $400. Their stuff works, they offer physical stores you can get technical support at, and they seem to be the best offering for privacy conscious users.

Re:Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed by rumanator on Sunday August 09, 2020 @06:02PM (#24103321)
> The whole premise is incorrect, so the conclusions are incorrect. The hardware is not the same, and even if it was, clearly the software makes a difference to the user.

Speaking as someone who has spent a fair share of money on Apple products, It really doesn't. Apple is in the business of selling Veblen goods, and unless you are in a niche domain that requires niche software, Apple does not offer anything that makes a significant difference when compared with what ships with other platforms.

This is specially true nowadays as the bulk of the work done by anyone is performed through a browser. I mean, Finder works but no one spends $2k on a laptop just because you can open files like a champ.

In order to understand the appeal of Apple's product line, all you need to check is the rationale of companies who try to entice potential hires by advertising how they make available flashy Apple hardware to their employees.

Re:Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed by lotsofpulp on Sunday August 09, 2020 @06:09PM (#24103376)
The entirety of my grandparents generation being able to Facetime their grandkids all over the world since 2010 isn’t a Veblen good.

My non English fluent and tech illiterate family members can browse the internet and click on all the malware links without worrying about losing personal data or ruining their device. That’s not a Veblen good either.

My time doing tech support going down to zero because the solution is either power cycle the device or take it to an Apple store is not a Veblen good either.

Re:Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed by rumanator on Sunday August 09, 2020 @06:36PM (#24103533)
> The entirety of my grandparents generation being able to Facetime their grandkids all over the world since 2010 isn’t a Veblen good.

You are being disingenuous if you believe that Apple Facetime is the only or even dominant voice and/or video call system. WhatsApp alone has between 4 and 5 times the market share of Apple's FaceTime.

You need to come up with another explanation.

> My non English fluent and tech illiterate family members can browse the internet and click on all the malware links without worrying about losing personal data or ruining their device. That’s not a Veblen good either.

Quite frankly, that's complete bullshit. The majority of web users, whether they are computer illiterate or not, don't worry about "malware links" at all, and that concern simply doesn not register in the mind of the Facebook+Instagram+WhatsApp+Twitter crowd.

Re:Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed by lotsofpulp on Monday August 10, 2020 @10:24AM (#24109561)
In 2012 or so, FaceTime was the only easy to use, reliable video call option. I know because I tried Skype and hangouts and tango and whatever other crap was out there. They all failed where FaceTime succeeded with all the elders. Also, iPads are the only decent tablet available which are nice for older people due to the larger screen. Reality is my explanation.

And I guess I must be imagining the hours I spent removing malware from windows computers before iOS came along. The stage was set a decade ago when the best option was iOS. My grandparents aren’t going to learn a different system nowadays.

Re:Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed by HatchedLake721 on Monday August 10, 2020 @04:14AM (#24106800)
You’re missing the point. Apple democratized technology and made it extremely consumer friendly, so that grandparents or a 2 year old know how to use an iPad. Credit where credit’s due.
Re:Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed by mthoms on Sunday August 09, 2020 @05:22PM (#24103019)
>The whole Apple fashion status trope is tired and has never been true.

I love (and almost exclusively use) Apple products for many of the reasons you listed. But I think it's disingenuous to deny that there is an element of Apple's branding and design that is based on fashion.

Exhibit A: Laptops and phones getting thinner and thinner at the expense of battery life and other features (headphone jack).

Exhibit B: “A computer absolutely can be sexy… yeah, it can” – The glorious ways Jony Ive has described Apple products

https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/sophisticated-intuitive-...

Re:Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed by sukilot on Sunday August 09, 2020 @06:03PM (#24103333)
There's a difference between fashionable junk and fashionable quality. The difference is what Jobs and Ive call "design".

Spending extra on design isn't the eco disaster that spending on throwaway fashion is.

Re:Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed by mthoms on Sunday August 09, 2020 @06:35PM (#24103529)
You're preaching to the converted. I only disagreed with the notion that there is absolutely no "fashion" component of Apple's products or branding at all. Of course there is.
Re:Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed by cma on Sunday August 09, 2020 @05:16PM (#24102980)
Upgrading an ssd on them costs 3-4x as much as on a normal laptop.
Re:Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed by hombre_fatal on Sunday August 09, 2020 @05:16PM (#24102978)
> In what other industry are people willing to pay at least more than twice, for the same hardware?

Just about all of them, from cars to ski equipment.

But that's not what's happening here.

Re:Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed by ImaCake on Sunday August 09, 2020 @06:04PM (#24103339)
I recently got a macbook after having never owned an apple computer (besides a 2nd hand iphone 5). The improvements compared to windows and linux are really impressive. This device does exactly what I want it for; unix native shell support and performance without linux problems. Windows still has it's place, but Macbooks still provide real value.
Re:Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed by vladvasiliu on Monday August 10, 2020 @01:21AM (#24105827)
There's clearly an appeal of the Apple brand to people. But I think that the appeal comes much more as a form of "general belonging" rather than as a "fad".

Usually "fashionable" items (be it clothing or others) are quite noticeably different from year to year. To the untrained eye, my 7 year old mbp doesn't look all that different from a brand new 2020 one. If I open it up in public, I'll look like "a guy who uses apple". People won't know that I'm out of style because I rock an "ancient" laptop.

This seems true for iphones, too. The models before the X look somewhat different because of the button, but aside from the cameras being changed, I can't easily tell apart the newer models without a home button.

Re:Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed by ponker on Sunday August 09, 2020 @04:14PM (#24102495)
But there are functional reasons to prefer Apple hardware as well. I use almost exclusively Apple hardware and I own one garment worth more than $30.