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Re:Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a ma... by tzs on Thursday July 23, 2020 @12:10AM (#23924106)
That leads to my afterlife nightmare scenario.

I die bravely in glorious battle and am chosen by the Valkyries for Valhalla. One evening as we feast after that day's fighting, quaffing giant tankards of mead and boasting of our deeds, there comes a knock at the door.

Two young men in suits enter, and go to speak to Odin.

Odin then call for me to come over. He tells me that the young men are Mormons, and that some distant relative born long after I died (great-grandkid of a second cousin or something like that) has joined the Mormon church and has been busy baptizing the whole damn family tree.

Odin tells me I'm Mormon now, and cannot stay in Valhalla. I must move to the Mormon afterlife.

(Actually, the Mormon afterlife doesn't seem all that bad compared to that of most Christian or Christian-adjacent religions, in the sense that if you reject their teachings but still live a decent life you get a decent afterlife).

Re:Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a ma... by int_19h on Thursday July 23, 2020 @02:52AM (#23924826)
Mormon baptism for the dead is conditional - it doesn't automatically convert them, but rather the dead person gets a choice to accept that baptism or not.

But then again, while in Mormon theology the spirits are immediately sorted into paradise and "spirit prison" upon death, they can apparently communicate across the boundary between the two; and those in paradise can thus evangelize to those in prison, until they convert. So by the time they get their proxy baptism, they would presumably be convinced of its necessity.

(Although I never understood why that would even be necessary, given that by that time they already know, and thus don't have to believe...)

And yeah, Mormon theology is not what you'd expect from a religion that's so rigidly socially conservative. Between near-universal salvation and extreme Arminianism, it's really one of the most liberal among Christian denominations.

Re:Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a ma... by taejo on Thursday July 23, 2020 @03:30AM (#23925021)
> those in paradise can thus evangelize to those in prison, until they convert.

So even the Mormons admit that having Mormons constantly trying to convert you for the rest of eternity is what hell is like... :D

Re:Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a ma... by jjeaff on Thursday July 23, 2020 @01:59PM (#23930192)
The mormon belief of being able to preach and convert after death stems from new testament teachings in Peter that Christ preached to those in "prison".

And while many Mormons take the necessity of baptism (even if after death) very literally, it is important to understand that they also believe that anyone who missed the chance to accept a posthumous baptism, will get that chance during the millennium of Christ's reign on earth, pre-judgement day.

All of that is to say, Mormons aren't frantically searching their genealogy to baptise everyone for fear their ancestors will burn in hell. There is a belief that seeking out and understanding your geneology and then setting aside time to go to the temple is beneficial to ones spirituality and well being.

Re:Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a ma... by mdocherty on Thursday July 23, 2020 @12:29AM (#23924189)
Valhalla is only good if you keep winning the afterlife wars!
Re:Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a ma... by menybuvico on Thursday July 23, 2020 @02:46AM (#23924799)
Valhalla is nothing but a training ground for the forces of Odin. Once Ragnarök happens, they will die a final death fighting the forces of evil.

If you want eternal life, you want to go to Fólkvangr.

Re:Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a ma... by GoblinSlayer on Thursday July 23, 2020 @03:59AM (#23925179)
Ragnarök is the only afterlife war.
Re:Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a ma... by Antipode on Thursday July 23, 2020 @11:43AM (#23928528)
Sounds like The Saga of Biorn https://youtu.be/MV5w262XvCU
Re:Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a ma... by riffraff on Thursday July 23, 2020 @12:58AM (#23924301)
I believe the "if you live a good life you go to heaven" is a common tenet of many Christian denominations since the Vatican Council.

At least, I recall my religion teacher (a catholic priest, we have such a class in public schools in Italy tho they vary in content and quality) telling us that some decades ago.

You do not go to heaven if you're an atheist tho, as _denying_ there is something divine puts you in the bad list, sorry.

Re:Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a ma... by kmonsen on Thursday July 23, 2020 @01:47AM (#23924492)
I mean does it really matter what the church says? The important part is what God actually thinks here and that seems to be very different depending on who you ask.
Re:Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a ma... by dvfjsdhgfv on Thursday July 23, 2020 @02:32AM (#23924734)
To be more precise, what matters is not so much what God/gods "think", but what they want us to do. In this case, the textual foundation for Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus is Mark 16:16: "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned." Assuming these really are the words of Jesus, they leave very little for interpretation, no matter what Vaticanum II says.
Re:Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a ma... by GoblinSlayer on Thursday July 23, 2020 @03:44AM (#23925093)
Only if your priest disallows other interpretations. Here people can disagree what constitutes faith. Many Christians believe that God is everything good, so if you share good values, it's thinkable you are effectively a decent Christian. But yeah, for Protestants faith is formality: if you only believe in these and these letters and remain a miserable sinner, you get a ticket to heaven.
Re:Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a ma... by sorokod on Thursday July 23, 2020 @03:51AM (#23925136)
These can not be the words of Jesus since the language of these words did not exist at the time (assuming a deity that doesn't express itself in yet unformed languages).
Re:Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a ma... by vabadus on Thursday July 23, 2020 @08:58AM (#23926842)
Is this better?

"ὁ πιστεύσας καὶ βαπτισθεὶς σωθήσεται, ὁ δὲ ἀπιστήσας κατακριθήσεται."

That's the closest we can get, although Jesus would have assumedly spoken these words in Aramaic, not Greek.

Source: http://bibletranslation.ws/trans/markwgrk.pdf

Re:Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a ma... by Y_Y on Thursday July 23, 2020 @08:58AM (#23926851)
God would hardly allow the church to go around spreading falsehoods, would He? Surely the various Popes/Patriarchs/Grand Wizards are just a mouthpiece for the almighty and all of his confusing and inconsistent proclamations.
Re:Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a ma... by golem14 on Thursday July 23, 2020 @03:35AM (#23925051)
That's a fairly new development BTW, I believe 2005-2007. Before that, unbaptized "good" souls were collecting dust in limbo.
Re:Breach exposed more than one million DNA profiles on a ma... by lukejduncan on Thursday July 23, 2020 @01:17AM (#23924384)
Definitely not on the Protestant branch of things.