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Re:Apple has €13bn Irish tax bill overturned by ChuckNorris89 on Wednesday July 15, 2020 @09:59AM (#23845295)
Social security and healthcare is definitely awesome, but have you checked house prices near big German cities like Munich? They're much closer to Bay Area prices while salaries are very far away.

Europeans who keep tooting that "we don't need US salaries" tend to be the more privileged ones who will also inherit a house from their boomer parents and take it for granted, so they don't feel the stress of the rat race with skyrocketing house prices and income inequality.

So no, we DO want better paying jobs and lower taxes otherwise we'll go back to a feudalistic society where a select few own the housing and means of production through inheritance and everyone else and their offspring will forever be stuck working for the upper class so they can consume their products and pay them rent.

In most of the US, learning leet-code offers one a meritocratic lift up to the upper class while in most of Europe(except the East) it does not.

Re:Apple has €13bn Irish tax bill overturned by balfirevic on Wednesday July 15, 2020 @12:39PM (#23847733)
> while in most of Europe(except the East) it does not.

Wait, something doesn't add up here. I see many programmers migrating from eastern to western Europe, but not the other way around.

It is true that programming as a profession will offer comparatively higher standard of living in eastern Europe (when compared to other professions), but that's because the overall standard of living is lower than it is in the west.

Re:Apple has €13bn Irish tax bill overturned by betaby on Wednesday July 15, 2020 @02:00PM (#23849064)
A lot of people move from Eastern Europe to Western because the political (Russia, Belarus, Ukraine) and LGBT (Russia, Belarus, Ukraine, Poland) reasons, not money.
Re:Apple has €13bn Irish tax bill overturned by tsimionescu on Wednesday July 15, 2020 @03:51PM (#23850728)
Not at all. By far the biggest engine of emigration is money. In my country (Romania) there are millions of people working in western Europe (2 million in Spain, 1 million in Italy, probably something similar in the UK + Germany + France). A large number of them are parents who leave their children at home and work for most of the year there to gather money.

Even if you're talking about just software devs, people still move to the west for higher salaries, though I believe there is more movement towards the US, especially since the software industry has a lot of local branches of US companies.

But I can tell you from the ground that at least the common perception is that you are generally going to be wealthier as a software developer in western Europe than in Romania, even though in Romania software devs tend to be much better off than the majority of the workforce (and even though software devs in Romania don't pay income tax on their salaries, which is a nice 15% rebate).

Re:Apple has €13bn Irish tax bill overturned by petra on Wednesday July 15, 2020 @03:58PM (#23850834)
How are there 1 million Romanian workers in the UK(since brexit happened)?
Re:Apple has €13bn Irish tax bill overturned by tsimionescu on Wednesday July 15, 2020 @04:57PM (#23851687)
I was saying 1M between UK, Germany and France. Most likely today there are fewer, because of Covid19. Brexit hasn't lead to repatriations, so no large change caused by it I believe.
Re:Apple has €13bn Irish tax bill overturned by betaby on Wednesday July 15, 2020 @04:44PM (#23851468)
1m total, not (necessary) tech workers.
Re:Apple has €13bn Irish tax bill overturned by balfirevic on Wednesday July 15, 2020 @03:04PM (#23850071)
I'm aware, but that's not related to my comment, unless you're actually claiming that programmers have lower standard of living in the western Europe compared to eastern Europe (which I believe to be false).
Re:Apple has €13bn Irish tax bill overturned by betaby on Wednesday July 15, 2020 @03:18PM (#23850264)
Belarus, Ukraine, Russia have low taxation for the salaries in IT (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belarus_High_Technologies_Park) To have your own 2-3 room flat in Minsk (Capital) by the age of 35 is pretty common for Belarusian programmers and basically unheard in the West. So yes, I can argue that programmers can have higher standards of life at home than your typical "tech hub" like London, Munchen or Dublin.
Re:Apple has €13bn Irish tax bill overturned by rusk on Wednesday July 15, 2020 @12:25PM (#23847523)
> have you checked house prices near big German cities like Munich?

People generally don’t buy but rent and the rental market is set in such a way as not to gouge people. Still expensive but salaries are relatively high and in all other respects costs of living is very reasonable