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Re:I Know What You Download on BitTorrent by joe463369 on Monday July 13, 2020 @05:57PM (#23826023)
Can you explain why? I can understand why people want things for free, but thinking that you shouldn't contribute towards the production cost of the programme you enjoy seems strange to me.
Re:I Know What You Download on BitTorrent by tomc1985 on Monday July 13, 2020 @09:50PM (#23827698)
It feels so weird to grow up in an age of rampant, unabashed piracy, where literally everyone around you is burning CDs or cracking games or handing out copied mixtapes, and see questions like these. It just goes to show how thoroughly streaming squashed piracy (at least before everything fractured into the current landscape), and how short our collective memories are.

Data yearns to be free -- sharing it and copying it cost nothing. Shows are just video data. Forcing real-world, scarcity economics, in a realm where the only currency of the land is plentiful, seems strange to me.

There are so many other ways to monetize media content, and yet we keep going back to DRM and publisher-controlled walled-gardens. It's a complete and total shame.

Re:I Know What You Download on BitTorrent by chipotle_coyote on Tuesday July 14, 2020 @02:07AM (#23829028)
I don't mean to pick on you, per se, but I think there's a long-standing confusion about creative works that's captured in your line:

> Data yearns to be free -- sharing it and copying it costs nothing.

The latter part of that is true (setting aside quibbles about bandwidth and storage not being absolutely 100% free), but here's the thing: back in the days of physical media, of books and DVDs and CDs and what have you, the bulk of the price was never the physical media itself. The paper and plastic was never the valuable part.

> There are so many other ways to monetize media content...

Maybe, but just about all the ones that I've seen boil down to one of three methods:

- charge people directly for the content

- give the content away for free and sell ads against the content

- give the content away for free and make ancillary sales (e.g., merchandise)

Charging people for content doesn't require DRM: essentially all digital music sales are now DRM-free, for instance, and many ebooks are, depending on the publisher.

Also, two other observations.

First, while music publishers were always unduly whiny about the ability to record music at all, burning CDs and making mix tapes did cost money; it may have "felt" just like putting your entire music library up on Napster, but unless you had enough money to just hand out thousands of CDs of other people's music on street corners, it wasn't. It's not really super surprising that digital music piracy made those music publishers a lot soggier and hard to light.

Second, "data yearns to be free" sounds like a rephrasing of "information wants to be free," and I think it's worth remembering that the full quote from Stewart Brand went on to say "Information also wants to be expensive. This tension will not go away." Technology may let us reduce the marginal cost of reproducing anything that can be expressed as data to zero, but that doesn't make everything that ben expressed as data valueless.

Re:I Know What You Download on BitTorrent by tomc1985 on Wednesday July 15, 2020 @12:56AM (#23841496)
Information doesn't 'want' to be expensive. We, people, want it to be expensive. And I'm with the folks want it to be cheap. Both groups will do what they can within their power to achieve their goals.
Re:I Know What You Download on BitTorrent by II2II on Monday July 13, 2020 @10:42PM (#23827942)
Is it weird?

We may have DRM and walled gardens, but media distribution is much more consumer friendly than it used to be.

There are many services that offer streaming at a flat rate, where you can watch or listen what you please and when you please without being subjected to third-party advertising. You can also subscribe and unsubscribe with ease, without paying additional fees. Contrast that to prior decades where none of that was true.

There are other services that offer perpetual licenses (I am hesitant to call them purchases) of books, music, videos, and software. You can access that content across multiple devices. In some cases you can even legally acquire it without DRM. Contrast that to early digital media. I remember floppy based software that would disable the installation media once it was installed to a hard drive. You could not re-download your music in the early days of iTunes, and they were considered consumer friendly.

I doubt that many people actually expected information to be free. What they wanted was for information to be convenient and cheap. As for those who actually did want information to be free, there are options out there that respect the creator's wishes (creative commons licensing, open source, etc.).

Re:I Know What You Download on BitTorrent by Xortl on Monday July 13, 2020 @10:30PM (#23827902)
If someone puts great effort and cost into producing media, why would others be entitled to get the fruits of that labor for free? Game of Thrones is a luxury, not a necessity; people aren't entitled to it just because they want it and refuse to pay for it.
Re:I Know What You Download on BitTorrent by efreak on Tuesday July 14, 2020 @05:13AM (#23829923)
I don't mind paying for the latest album/ebook/videogame. What I mind is not being able to watch GoT in HD on Linux. I mind paying for the latest album then not being able to play it on my openhome DLNA devices. I mind not being able to play a random selection of more than 1000 or so songs from my library (a big enough playlist to not hear the same song multiple times daily). I mind not being able to crossfade my music, or use a media player that can adjust for the shitty speakers in my phone. I can finally share my video game library with my friend, but if I want to play even a free game while they use my library, that's not possible (the only limitation here should be playing the same game). I mind paying for an ebook, then not being able to read it in purple 34pt copperplate against a green background with line breaks where they belong (get thee hence PDF). I mind not being able to search the contents of multiple ebooks I own for the name of a character because I forgot the book title or because it's a cameo in another series. I mind not being able to create a playlist of music that contains files from my Google play music library, my Dropbox folder, and my desktop. I mind buying media from a DRM provider, then they decide to shut their service down and I can never access those files again; I may have some chance if I install their software before they shut down their servers, but I'll lose access if I ever upgrade my computer/OS (Nintendo DSi store, various other defunct ebook/music/video game providers). I mind that the e-book I downloaded through my library's OverDrive subscription cannot be read offline at all because it's not available as an epub or on Amazon, and thus it can't be downloaded to read offline, and for the same reason I also can't take notes or have multiple bookmarks. I mind that I can't give away my purchased ebooks after I'm done with them. I mind the fact that to watch movies away from home, I need to get a more expensive tablet (cellular version) and pay monthly for an extra data line that likely limits me to only watching 3-4 movies anyways.

Free is nice, yes. But money isn't the only reason for piracy. Downloading is easier and frequently faster than ripping the DRM off myself.

Re:I Know What You Download on BitTorrent by pastage on Tuesday July 14, 2020 @01:41AM (#23828889)
Streaming services are still less convenient, though they are moee accesible now, and it shows, piracy is less and less popular every year.
Re:I Know What You Download on BitTorrent by waheoo on Monday July 13, 2020 @08:32PM (#23827303)
Philosophical line in the sand.

Media companies have abused laws and rights that are supposed to encourage and enrich society not diminish and stifle it.

They're beyond redemption at this point. The whole industry can burn at the stake for all I care. Netflix included. (Why does it matter what country I live in again? Why do you remove access to certain shows st random?)

The only media I pay for willingly is books and that is purely because amazon did such a great job of rejecting the authors guild and creating an atleast seemingly competitive market.

If media companies want my money they need to stop suing their largest customers.

They need to stop lobbying my government to enforce their governments rules.

They need to respect fair use.

They need to understand that it no longer costs anything to produce a copy and they are more than capable of finding a business model that works through the use of product placement. Hell they could run ads on their self listed torrents and I wouldnt bother reripping or looking for one without the ads.

Theyre way too focused on producing profits and protectionism than where they should be focused. Creating great entertainment and enriching society.

Re:I Know What You Download on BitTorrent by stevenwliao on Tuesday July 14, 2020 @12:31AM (#23828537)
> a business model that works through product placement

I pay because I don't want video blogspam and advertorials. There's lots on QVC that you can watch if you want to support that style of content.

Re:I Know What You Download on BitTorrent by refurb on Tuesday July 14, 2020 @12:41AM (#23828589)
This just reads like a list of excuses. You could swap “piracy” with “selling drugs” and “entertainment industry” with “big pharma” and it would read just fine.
Re:I Know What You Download on BitTorrent by dboat on Tuesday July 14, 2020 @01:47AM (#23828932)
I don't think it's a valid argument to brush raised issues aside as excuses.

Media companies are aggressively litigious bullies and the way they conduct their business is at odds with the interests of the public at large. Not speaking for the others but I have no tears for cry for losses incurred by actors like that, especially not "losses" of digital media licensing opportunities.

Re:I Know What You Download on BitTorrent by waheoo on Tuesday July 14, 2020 @07:37AM (#23830698)
And it probably wouldnt be all that wrong. All that tells you is that the same problem exists in multiple industries and sections of society. General patent law is another one.

The real solution isnt ignoring copyright like i do. That is just all i have available.

The real solution is to reign in the timeframes copyright and patent law lasts for.

Have it only long enough to recoup costs of development and provide some level of capital for the next innovation. Not an indefinite stranglehold on information for the benefit of only a few.

The thing people seem to argue is that these businesses have a free right to profit off of society. They dont, society should demand something in return.

Re:I Know What You Download on BitTorrent by adrusi on Monday July 13, 2020 @07:13PM (#23826722)
You can think it's bad to pirate media and still be hard-pressed to care when someone does it.
Re:I Know What You Download on BitTorrent by bickeringyokel on Tuesday July 14, 2020 @03:19AM (#23829379)
I'm almost at odds with myself on this. I think it's probably somewhat unethical to pirate stuff, but it's much more unethical to aggressively punish people that do... For the most part

The effect is so intangible for the large media funded projects as well, pirating your local struggling musicians might be another story, but is that really much worse than the current streaming model what you get paid a few thousand dollars for millions on streams?

Re:I Know What You Download on BitTorrent by wccrawford on Tuesday July 14, 2020 @06:41AM (#23830374)
I feel like that would be a rare soul these days. People are so prone to screaming about every little "sin", even if it's really nothing. It's like they can't distinguish between things that are bad and things that are unconscionably bad, and scream at the same volume regardless.
Re:I Know What You Download on BitTorrent by michaelt on Tuesday July 14, 2020 @09:12AM (#23831493)
> I feel like that would be a rare soul these days.

Remember, there's a big selection bias on that impression.

After all, the people who think it's none of their business if X at work is sleeping on the job don't post about it on social media.

Re:I Know What You Download on BitTorrent by Aeolun on Monday July 13, 2020 @09:14PM (#23827533)
I think that people that can contribute to the cost of making the programme should do so, but I’m also happy if people that cannot still get to enjoy it.
Re:I Know What You Download on BitTorrent by 6AA4FD on Tuesday July 14, 2020 @04:17AM (#23829657)
Exactly! I used to be in the latter camp as a child - allowance paid for some stuff, but not a lot, now I'm in the former group and am happy to subsidize the enjoyment of those less privileged than me. Especially because some of those people are probably going to be inspired and create some great art I'll really enjoy.
Re:I Know What You Download on BitTorrent by toxik on Monday July 13, 2020 @06:27PM (#23826291)
GoT season 8 is something that happened to me, not something I enjoyed. Like a bully ruining your sand castle after a long day at the beach.
Re:I Know What You Download on BitTorrent by joe463369 on Monday July 13, 2020 @06:37PM (#23826397)
How does that work? Do you watch programmes, then send off a cheque to HBO if it meets your standards?
Re:I Know What You Download on BitTorrent by CamperBob2 on Monday July 13, 2020 @08:30PM (#23827288)
It's probably fairly common among people who want to be able to access content freely while preserving an internal sense of ethical behavior.

That's basically what I did with a certain popular TV series. I'd torrent the individual episodes, then buy the DVD box sets at the end of the season to pay for it. When it became clear that the writers didn't actually have any idea what they were doing (which was a topic of no small debate at the time), I stopped buying the box sets.

Whether I stopped torrenting it is neither here nor there, but let's just say that the peer comment ("The last season wasn't something I enjoyed, it was something that happened to me") really rung a bell with me. Later, the same story repeated itself with another popular show on a different network, at which point I just disengaged with TV for good.

Re:I Know What You Download on BitTorrent by AlexCoventry on Monday July 13, 2020 @09:46PM (#23827680)
I stopped when they resuscitated Jon Snow. That was blatant pandering, and it was clearly going to be downhill from there.
Re:I Know What You Download on BitTorrent by the_af on Monday July 13, 2020 @11:03PM (#23828040)
I don't know if that was a joke, but Jon Snow is pretty clearly going to resuscitate in the books as well -- the exact way may not follow the TV show in detail, but it will in essence -- because he is important in GoT prophecy. I don't see this as pandering, any more than Gandalf surviving Moria is.

You could argue that season 8 was rushed, that some battles made no sense, that they botched the Night's King, or that Daenerys' character development was ruined by the abruptness -- though I think this too will play out similarly in the books -- but Jon Snow's resurrection was neither pandering nor the fault of HBO.

Re:I Know What You Download on BitTorrent by matz1 on Tuesday July 14, 2020 @10:29AM (#23832371)
I'll be honest, I want other people to contribute while I enjoy it for free.