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Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by levesque on Thursday July 09, 2020 @08:38AM (#23779513)
I think most tech stocks are overpriced right now. The amount of speculation taking place in the stock market at the moment is just insane. MSFT gained 30% over 6 months (that's compared to pre COVID levels), what's changed that much? Microsoft is a mature company, it shouldn't swing this hard. Nvidia almost doubled compared to pre COVID levels. ???
Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by Ecstatify on Thursday July 09, 2020 @10:07AM (#23780381)
Microsoft are killing it in enterprise. Our company is moving hundreds of servers to the cloud (Azure). Our company owns it's own datacenter, has a strategic partnership with another cloud provider (CEO supports the cloud provider publicly) but we're still moving to Azure. Since the start of the pandemic we have thousands of users moving from Skype for Business(on premise) to Microsoft Teams(subscription). Microsoft Teams has more users than Slack now. Once you're on the Microsoft train it's hard to get off. New Xbox coming out I believe at the end of the year. I think companies that don't have the necessary skills(my company) need to move to cloud our they will die, our core business isn't maintaining servers. Microsoft have really turned it around with developers, embraced open source, built great developer tools.
Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by sithlord on Thursday July 09, 2020 @10:20AM (#23780529)
to be fair, teams has more users than slack because they effectively give away teams with o365, and then claim all the people who have o365 use teams. Lots of companies use o365 (so get counted for teams) then, use slack as there actual chat app.

With that said, our company recently switched from slack to teams, and its been a fairly annoying change. Teams is miles behind slack in terms of usability.

Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by kwww on Thursday July 09, 2020 @11:05AM (#23781057)
Since coronavirus Microsoft has the NHS (~1.7M employees) on teams.
Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by dkarl on Thursday July 09, 2020 @12:43PM (#23782063)
I use both Teams and Slack and almost did a spit take at the idea of "switching" from Slack to Teams. I had noticed that Teams has more chat functionality than a meeting tool really needs, but I didn't imagine that it was intended to be usable as a company's primary chat system.
Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by Ecstatify on Thursday July 09, 2020 @10:35AM (#23780720)
Yeah slack is definitely the superior product, I think it was a great strategy by Microsoft to give the free 1 year subscription. Gives them some time to catch up to slack.
Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by FactCore on Thursday July 09, 2020 @02:52PM (#23783683)
> Microsoft have really turned it around with developers, embraced open source, built great developer tools.

I'm still taking these changes with a grain of salt. If devs are still getting the same treatment in say, 5 or 10 years, I'll believe that Microsoft has changed. But to me the whole thing smells of "Use our open-source programs that just so happen to work really well with our paid-for closed-source software! Why not just switch to Windows and grab our Office 365 subscription while you're at it?"

Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by mercer on Thursday July 09, 2020 @03:20PM (#23783993)
That might well be true, but right now it's great for many of us. If in a decade VSCode becomes a subscription-only thing, or it requires usage of sharepoint, or something similarly horrible, it'll still have been a wonderful editor to me at this moment in time.

But yeah, considering Microsoft's history it's probably good to stay vigilant.

Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by znpy on Thursday July 09, 2020 @10:47AM (#23780858)
I have used both Office365 (previous job) and Google apps (current job).

Office365 is lightyears ahead for pretty much everything, from a business perspective.

From a nerd persepective, outlook mail is a bit uncomfortable to use and Teams has usability problems (slack is still better in that regard).

However you get Teams basically for free with an office 365 subscription, and you would have to buy the office suite anyway, so...

Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by snarf21 on Thursday July 09, 2020 @11:50AM (#23781533)
The Office apps are better but everything else is significantly worse. All the systems are glommed together. The administration of everything is a nightmare. Try to setup things like OneDrive is a travesty. My girlfriend has O365 for her small business. She has the original account. She was trying to do something relatively simple with Teams the other day and it wouldn't let her. It said she wasn't an admin and she should contact hers. There is no one else, she IS the admin. So she signed up for a different service instead. I have nothing but trouble using the broad MS online ecosystem. But so many people are locked into and only know Windows and Office that switching cost is too much for most people.
Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by throwaway_pdp09 on Thursday July 09, 2020 @12:28PM (#23781914)
And this is the problem which MS creates for itself by sticking everything together into one huge gluey lump for you to get stuck onto, quite intentionally, but lack of quality plus emergent problems get you. MS has never been reliable throughout, and never will be until it gives up on complexity, and it won't do that because it's addicted to complexity.
Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by mercer on Thursday July 09, 2020 @03:24PM (#23784027)
I imagine it's easier and cheaper for Moft to throw customer support at these types of problems than to solve them. Which, honestly, is probably better than offering better products with no support at all (Google, where even the products aren't necessarily better)
Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by throwaway_pdp09 on Friday July 10, 2020 @04:37AM (#23789414)
Yeah, let's talk about MS' customer support... it's soooo good.
Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by dkarl on Thursday July 09, 2020 @12:50PM (#23782147)
A company with as many products as Microsoft can afford to be crap at so many things they do. Even a product they do well today, maybe corporate strategy changes tomorrow and condemns it to permanent neglect. It makes much more sense to use a solution from a company whose future is pinned to that one product.
Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by znpy on Thursday July 09, 2020 @12:17PM (#23781804)
> The administration of everything is a nightmare.

That's possible, I wouldn't know. I was writing about my experience as an user.

Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by tguedes on Thursday July 09, 2020 @01:10PM (#23782423)
Teams main competitor is Zoom, not Slack. Take a look at the new features they just announced for it: https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/8/21317526/microsoft-teams-t...

It's all video call related.

Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by johnchristopher on Thursday July 09, 2020 @10:50AM (#23780899)
But are there any ways I can convert my swiss knife 4€ per month vps (1vcore, 2g, 20g) to something azure (either a vps or a virtual distro) ? (genuine question)
Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by MobileVet on Thursday July 09, 2020 @10:59AM (#23780999)
I have been spending quite a bit of time trying to understand how the market is doing so well. There are quite a few variables, as in most complex systems, and many have been outlined Robinhood etc here.

However, I believe the single biggest factor to the market's continued stability was the announcement by the Federal Reserve to buy corporate bonds. This has NEVER been done before and was a HUGE deal.

The announcement came on March 23rd. 'Oddly' that also happens to be the very bottom of the March sell off panic.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/23/business/economy/coronavi...

Those purchases just started happening. As such, I expect the markets to continue as if there is no Covid Crisis as it is viewed as a short term issue that has been mitigated at a corporate cash flow point by this Federal Reserve buying. https://www.marketplace.org/2020/06/16/the-fed-starts-buying...

Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by csomar on Thursday July 09, 2020 @10:31AM (#23780657)
The market had a chance to correct itself; or worse, get into a depression (bear market). But that didn't happen. It suggests two things: 1- Either the market is not over-priced and these companies have strong revenues and fundamentals; or 2- The US dollar is discretely hyper-inflating and it's showing only on stocks and other similar assets at the moment.

Sure there is a chance that we are in a bubble (by the way, we have been saying that since 2010. That's over 10 years) but after Covid, I think that fundamentals have changed.

Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by Wohlf on Thursday July 09, 2020 @01:13PM (#23782460)
I think there's just nothing better to invest in right now, and wealthy people have a lot of capital. With things how they are in Hong Kong maybe there's even more capital flight out of China because they see the writing on the wall.
Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by bobsoap on Thursday July 09, 2020 @01:21PM (#23782566)
> I think there's just nothing better to invest in right now

I think this might be the biggest reason. With B&M falling like flies left and right, people are shifting their investments. I don't think it's limited to "wealthy people" either.

I'm sure the Fed's buying spree/inflation is a factor as well, however. Interesting times.

Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by albertop on Thursday July 09, 2020 @03:05PM (#23783810)
Agreed. I think this is still the case of: “Bears swimming in liquidity”
Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by nabla9 on Thursday July 09, 2020 @08:52AM (#23779629)
SP 500 Equal Weight Index is down -11.63% YTD. (every company in SP500 EWI has the same weight).

Most companies in SP500 are down. Stocks hurt because of COVID are losing value, those who are not affected or benefit gain.

High prices in tech sector reduces their expected future ROI. That's completely acceptable because other investments are worse.

Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by vmception on Thursday July 09, 2020 @11:30AM (#23781320)
and the universe of good investments is small while the universe of the money supply has expanded

so we will so oversized capital misallocation, until it is not considered a misallocation anymore

comparative metrics of the individual companies just because they happen to be publicly traded shares is not relevant or holistic enough

Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by sdenton4 on Thursday July 09, 2020 @12:08PM (#23781713)
Funny how when redistribution of wealth is mentioned everybody gets all "oh noes, inflation! if poor people can eat then the food will cost too much." But this is kinda what we're seeing on the stock side... there's too much wealth aggregated in the hands of people who already have enough [food, shelter, education, etc] chasing a small world of actually-not-so-great-right-now investments.

The fundamental problem of capitalism is that it only solves the problems of people with money. Put the money in the hands of people with more problems, and those problems will get solved. (On the 'oh noes, inflation' side, many of these problems can be solved by services, which create their own supply over time as people take the new jobs created by new demand.) As it is, a massive amount of wealth is tied up doing nothing but looking dumb...

Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by vmception on Thursday July 09, 2020 @02:34PM (#23783466)
Sir, this is a Wendy's.

....but I'll entertain you, both of your first two sentences are about inflation. We aren't "kinda seeing this on the stock side" this actually is inflation. This is the expected outcome of inflation and what has been happening for 100 years in the US. With an unprecedented acceleration.

I think what you are missing from a "capitalism versus X" discussion is the nuanced discussion of macroeconomics.

Redistribution of wealth into poor people affording food has only a little to do with inflation, so I'm sorry thats the level of discussion you've had with people thus far. It has more to do with market signals as well as competitiveness of that market at all for private investors if they were to be taxed heavily in order to pay for it. They really can go somewhere else, and that is a great privilege which always has to be balanced with what policy makers attempt to do. Right now, there is a massive wealth distribution occurring in order for people to be able to stay fed, with additional payments in unemployment insurance, coming directly from the Federal Reserve creating new money. And there are many market signals missing, exacerbating misallocation of capital.

You have to realize that with the CARES Act, the Federal Reserve's charter has been modified by Congress. Things that were unfathomable and illegal for the Federal Reserve to do are now legal. The entire point of the Federal Reserve were so that Congress stayed out of managing the money supply as it would be a continual political distraction, and Congress always shied away from touching anything about the Federal Reserve's law until now.

So the entire discussion has flipped. Republicans and moderate Democrats will never call it socialism, they'll never call it universal basic income, and right now there is also no political will to tax heavily in order to curb inflation while paying for the same programs. But what is happening is massive inflation, from the state, into a lot of people's pockets, to keep the lights on for everyone. Many of those people are buying stocks, along with the wealthy and corporate recipients.

Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by rsp1984 on Thursday July 09, 2020 @09:01AM (#23779702)
Post COVID the world economy is no longer growing, so stocks of companies that do grow are at a premium now.
Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by luspr on Thursday July 09, 2020 @09:53AM (#23780195)
I think prices today are to some extend inflated by government action. But it is hard to tell by how much, since also the global economy will grow again very soon. And if anyone benefits from more digitization and remote work it is MSFT.

Also for MSFT specifically, I think the company is in a very good spot right now with its cloud business, gaming and office, developer and productivity software

Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by nogabebop23 on Thursday July 09, 2020 @10:25AM (#23780590)
I suspect MSFT is reaping a huge gain from the combination of business tooling (office, applicaitons, infrastructure), cloud-hosted environments and high-touch customer management. With all those workers remote, companies have huge IT workloads to support them. Would you rather be calling your MS rep these days or trying to find a human at Google?
Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by victords on Thursday July 09, 2020 @10:39AM (#23780752)
Let's not forget about the Xbox gamers working from home that are secretly playing games during boring meetings.
Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by levesque on Thursday July 09, 2020 @09:21AM (#23779852)
That makes a lot of sense.
Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by enilakla on Thursday July 09, 2020 @08:48AM (#23779585)
Pretty much - Large and Mega cap is performing well because at the end of the day it’s small businesses that will struggle while the larger entities can ride it out. Add a few trillion in cash and the writings on the wall.

I also suspect the decision makers don’t really want asset prices to go to shit, so better for them to issue more debt and let the next generation deal with it.

Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by jjoonathan on Thursday July 09, 2020 @08:46AM (#23779574)
> what's changed

Passive cash flows became more expensive. Money got pushed into Microsoft, not pulled into it.

Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by rsp1984 on Thursday July 09, 2020 @08:56AM (#23779662)
Mind explaining what you mean by "passive cash flows" and why they became more expensive?
Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by Spivak on Thursday July 09, 2020 @09:05AM (#23779729)
MS didn’t become more valuable in a vacuum. It’s just with the pandemic hurting so many businesses the value of a stable mature company that’s still making money went up.
Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by take_a_breath on Thursday July 09, 2020 @09:34AM (#23779967)
The price/earnings ratio went up. You are paying more for each dollar of MS profit compared to last year (which was already a high P/E ratio).

It’s another form of inflation.

Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by misja111 on Thursday July 09, 2020 @09:19AM (#23779840)
Passive cash is cash that is invested relatively risk free, such as in A status government bonds.

10Y treasury rate dropped by 1 percent point this year: https://ycharts.com/indicators/10_year_treasury_rate

Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by enilakla on Thursday July 09, 2020 @08:48AM (#23779587)
Exactly
Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by johnvanommen on Thursday July 09, 2020 @02:38PM (#23783502)
> MSFT gained 30% over 6 months (that's compared to pre COVID levels), what's changed that much?

1) assets are denominated in dollars

2) the amount of dollars in circulation has increased about 40% in 2020

3) Therefore, asset prices go up

That's all there is to it.

Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by yangminded on Thursday July 09, 2020 @10:06AM (#23780358)
The public noticed the value of technologies MSFT offers. Not everyone who has money and invests understands what Cloud is or why MS Teams is something that might sell well.

Covid-19 gave all those people a very visual example of the value proposition.

Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by paulmd on Thursday July 09, 2020 @12:30PM (#23781938)
apart from the pure financial stuff that others are discussing - COVID means that Microsoft is selling a lot of product right now. There are a LOT of PCs getting built right now, and what goes on them? Microsoft's OS and Microsoft's office suite. And I would not be surprised if a lot of places that may have been reticent to move into the subscription-based cloud model are suddenly seeing the light now that work has suddenly become decentralized and remote. Anyone who is selling collaboration or telework tools (Zoom, Citrix, etc) is benefiting hugely from this pandemic.

Dunno if you have tried to find PC parts lately but things like power supplies are extremely difficult to get your hands on right now. I have seen $100+ for a shit-tier random-brand gold power supply, take it or leave it, because right now there is just no supply. 30% of America is suddenly working from home and a significant number of those are building rigs for their new home office.

Monitors are another, the impact on the monitor market is palpable, basic productivity monitors (60 hz 24" 1080p and 27" 1440p) are up 50% or more in some caases from the start of the year.

I consider myself lucky that I am sitting on a great ultrawide gaming monitor and a lot of misc hardware, as things have been heating up this summer I pulled my J5005 NUC off one of the TVs and reformatted it yesterday so now I don't have to run my power-hungry gaming rig just to do citrix.

Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by georgeecollins on Thursday July 09, 2020 @03:32PM (#23784108)
Or webcams! It was so hard to find a decent webcam in April. I am sure they are selling much better than normal to this day.
Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by devxpy on Thursday July 09, 2020 @11:30PM (#23787863)
I don't understand why everyone cares so much about stock price, an almost arbitrary measure of the value of a company, based on sentiments and not facts. Isn't total equity the real indicator of the company's value in money?
Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by rwmj on Thursday July 09, 2020 @09:15AM (#23779806)
Right. Intel stock is still somewhere around double what it was only 3 years ago, and I'm pretty sure that they're not in a better situation re EUV, 10nm, competition from AMD etc. than 3 years ago.
Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by qeternity on Thursday July 09, 2020 @08:45AM (#23779565)
The Fed.
Re:Nvidia is now worth more than Intel by melvinroest on Thursday July 09, 2020 @09:44AM (#23780078)
In the book The Intelligent Investor I got a feel for how long optimistic views can last (TL;DR 5+ years). And then 2000 - 2003 happened.