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Re:I got 400 signups with a video of a product that didn’t e... by satvikpendem on Tuesday July 07, 2020 @05:57PM (#23764555)
This is something I mentioned before as well (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18858703):

I'm creating an open source todo list + calendar webapp (https://getartemis.app, source at https://github.com/satvikpendem/artemis) made by just me, and I can tell you how I approached the problem. The video you see on the front page does not exist in code, it is simply a prototype designed with Figma (https://figma.com) and animated with Principle (https://principleformac.com). I created the landing page and video, added a Mailchimp form, and I posted on Twitter, Reddit, and here on Hacker News, the communities in which it made sense. For me, it's a productivity / task management tool, so I would post on reddit.com/r/getdisciplined or reddit.com/r/productivity.

It's all about creating a minimum viable product, as you might well be aware, but what you may not know is that an MVP need not have code. Indeed, it could be a video as I did, and I think for software, a video works best as people can actually see what it looks and feels like, without you necessarily creating the product architecture (full frontend and backend plus devops etc). Now I have over 150 subscribers (edit: now 1100 as of July 2020) in only a month due to rapid creation of this type of MVP, and based on this feedback, I changed my designs, and only now I am beginning to really create the heart of the product.

Using non-code MVPs is the best way in my opinion to sell quickly before building.

Re:I got 400 signups with a video of a product that didn’t e... by MereInterest on Tuesday July 07, 2020 @06:17PM (#23764783)
I think I'd make a huge distinction between a reasonable demonstration, which may be a video, and a minimum viable product, which must have code associated with it. If it isn't functional, and could not be sold in its current state, then it isn't a viable product.
Re:I got 400 signups with a video of a product that didn’t e... by satvikpendem on Tuesday July 07, 2020 @06:32PM (#23764924)
Sure, I made clear they were just signing up for the mailing list, not the product itself. They're not paying customers but they're an audience I can sell to later. I expect only 10 percent will convert to the paid product, but that's better than 0%, when you have no audience.
Re:I got 400 signups with a video of a product that didn’t e... by MereInterest on Tuesday July 07, 2020 @06:49PM (#23765096)
Got it, and that sounds perfectly reasonable. I'd describe it entirely differently from an MVP, but it is reasonable to make a demo to judge reactions and see where points of confusion are in how the product will work.
Re:I got 400 signups with a video of a product that didn’t e... by satvikpendem on Tuesday July 07, 2020 @07:40PM (#23765511)
As well, there are two large categories of MVPs, low fidelity and high fidelity (https://www.robotmascot.co.uk/18-types-of-minimum-viable-pro...), and subtypes within that.

What I did was a "fake door" MVP, as the article states. It is not necessarily intended for directly measuring sales but whether its worth my time to build it in the first place. Having over a thousand sign-ups now, it validates that I should indeed spend my time on it.

Then, I would make a high fidelity one, a "one feature" MVP as the article calls it, which would cut the product down to its essence and see if it can still solve a specific problem, and whether people would still pay for only one feature. I am doing this now with a mobile app instead of web/desktop app as the reduced screen space forces me to think about the problem of time block productivity from its essence.

Perhaps your definitions of MVP are different than others, which is perfectly fine. There are others I've seen over the years like simple, lovable, complete (products), and so on (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22955085).

Re:I got 400 signups with a video of a product that didn’t e... by MereInterest on Tuesday July 07, 2020 @08:45PM (#23765885)
Yeah, I think we are arguing semantics. For me, not being an entrepreneur, the "viable product" portion of MVP seems like it is a useful distinction. In your original post, when you said that you had an MVP that just consisted of a video, I interpreted it as a form of fraud. (i.e. "I sold customers a product that doesn't exist, using a video to fool them.")
Re:I got 400 signups with a video of a product that didn’t e... by sooheon on Tuesday July 07, 2020 @09:47PM (#23766169)
This terminology fuzziness is a direct result of SEO. "MVP" = Good Thing in entrepreneurial circles, so things that are not viable products are labeled as such because they want to be associated with that keyword.
Re:I got 400 signups with a video of a product that didn’t e... by PaulStatezny on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @02:29AM (#23767427)
100%. satvikpendem is doing wordplay. A video of a nonexistent piece of software is a useful tool, but a viable product it is not.

That he's denying this proves your point.

Re:I got 400 signups with a video of a product that didn’t e... by satvikpendem on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @12:12PM (#23771277)
I don't think so. Look at the other comments replying to my thread. The definition of MVP can mean finding the fastest way to validate with the least effort, as Eric Ries is quoted in the other comment. Perhaps at one point MVP did literally mean the smallest usable product but now the product does not necessarily need to be usable, it just has to validate a hypothesis.
Re:I got 400 signups with a video of a product that didn’t e... by PaulStatezny on Friday July 10, 2020 @12:04AM (#23788032)
Edit: Agree to disagree.

/shrug

Re:I got 400 signups with a video of a product that didn’t e... by satvikpendem on Friday July 10, 2020 @09:20AM (#23791179)
> And a WIP can mean something I haven't even started on yet. /s

> You're twisting the meaning of the words in the acronym. I really don't care, but it renders the words meaningless to use them that way.

Again, I'm not sure how to explain that MVP does not literally mean an actual product. It's a tool for hypothesis testing, you don't spend time and energy building out your entire product before you show something to customers, that would be a waste of time and energy. That's why I, and others, define MVP as anything that let's you understand something new about your market and eventually you use that knowledge to make a product.

Re:I got 400 signups with a video of a product that didn’t e... by gowld on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @01:37PM (#23772187)
Should words have shared meanings? Otherwise communication collapses. You promoted a mock-up and got interest to motivate building a product. That's great. Why use misleading words to describe it?
Re:I got 400 signups with a video of a product that didn’t e... by satvikpendem on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @06:55PM (#23775136)
As I've stated in my other comments, the words I used such as MVP are not misleading, or at least, they have multiple meanings, such that those who understand what I meant by MVP were not confused as to its multiple meanings, so the communication was clear enough.
Re:I got 400 signups with a video of a product that didn’t e... by IanCal on Tuesday July 07, 2020 @06:37PM (#23764973)
I've had the same argument but the origins don't support this as far as I can tell. A landing page can be a MVP. Dropbox is I think the classic example.

It feels wrong to me, but I think it puts me on the same side as those that reply "but there's a server still" on serverless discussions. As much as I may dislike the naming, that's what it means.

Re:I got 400 signups with a video of a product that didn’t e... by 1123581321 on Tuesday July 07, 2020 @06:50PM (#23765099)
An MVP has to be able to satisfy some user demand with a feature. A signup can’t do this (but it can facilitate market validation, which you may be thinking of.)

Here’s the definition of an MVP: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_viable_product

Re:I got 400 signups with a video of a product that didn’t e... by IanCal on Tuesday July 07, 2020 @06:54PM (#23765136)
Read that Wikipedia page with a different mindset and look up the origins of Dropbox.

> , the term MVP is commonly used, either deliberately or unwittingly, to refer to a much broader notion ranging from a rather prototype-like product to a fully-fledged and marketable product.[9]

Re:I got 400 signups with a video of a product that didn’t e... by 1123581321 on Tuesday July 07, 2020 @07:04PM (#23765227)
I remember the origins of Dropbox! Are you maybe thinking that anything that becomes a successful product must be considered an MVP?

The summary section of that article and the elaboration is correct and the portion you pulled out is just an explanation of a non-normative minority practice. The same goes for the other end that reserves the term for an essentially mature product, although for different reasons, since the minimum to actually put features in the hands of paying users can be debated whereas users cannot use a lack of features.

Re:I got 400 signups with a video of a product that didn’t e... by IanCal on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @01:16AM (#23767084)
> I remember the origins of Dropbox! Are you maybe thinking that anything that becomes a successful product must be considered an MVP?

No, that their initial landing page and video is regularly talked about as an MVP. Here's a 2011 article on it: https://techcrunch.com/2011/10/19/dropbox-minimal-viable-pro...

And here's Eric Ries http://www.startuplessonslearned.com/2009/08/minimum-viable-...

> First, a definition: the minimum viable product is that version of a new product which allows a team to collect the maximum amount of validated learning about customers with the least effort.

> Some caveats right off the bat. MVP, despite the name, is not about creating minimal products

Re:I got 400 signups with a video of a product that didn’t e... by gowld on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @01:43PM (#23772256)
Eric Ries redefined words to build his brand, which is based around the idea that marketing matters and products don't.
Re:I got 400 signups with a video of a product that didn’t e... by ultrasounder on Tuesday July 07, 2020 @07:09PM (#23765267)
Hi , I have Your GetArtemis App starred on GitHub. The question is how do You reach out to Your potential audience before You make a sale to them? Where do You find them and how do You convince them to Give out their email address? I am trying real hard to network over LinkedIn and I seem to get a measley 1% connection rate. Not at all scalable.
Re:I got 400 signups with a video of a product that didn’t e... by dj_mc_merlin on Tuesday July 07, 2020 @08:10PM (#23765718)
Genuine question, why is your comment capitalized like this? I assume english is your first language since it seems naturally written, and it's likely not dictated because no program would correctly write "GetArtemis". So how did it end up like that? Weird autocorrect?
Re:I got 400 signups with a video of a product that didn’t e... by throwvid19 on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @01:09AM (#23767062)
The conspiracy theorist in me says it's a way of signaling via the (bunk) neurolinguistic programming philosophy, which suggests that emphasizing certain words will evoke a desirable response. (Personal words like "you" and "your", as well as positive words like "give".)

The theologian in me says this person writes about/to god frequently and thus treats words like "you" as a capitalized proper noun so frequently that it's autocorrected.

The rationalist in me says English is not their first language and spends most of their time writing in their native language which may include different noun forms and so is habitual. And given some spacing and punctuation oddities, possibly an older person.

My money is on the rational explanation.

Re:I got 400 signups with a video of a product that didn’t e... by solarkraft on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @01:39AM (#23767192)
Hmm, in formal German "you"s can be capitalized. The "give" could just be noise.
Re:I got 400 signups with a video of a product that didn’t e... by tholford on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @05:01AM (#23768167)
Another potential explanation: sometimes when I dictate on iOS, the speech-to-text will spit out random capitalizations.
Re:I got 400 signups with a video of a product that didn’t e... by satvikpendem on Tuesday July 07, 2020 @07:47PM (#23765577)
First, I have some questions for you that once I know the answers I can help you better.

1. What problem are you trying to solve?

2. Who has those problems?

3. Where exactly are they located, both physically or in cyberspace?

Based on your conversation rate, you are probably doing a shotgun approach or not talking to the people you need to be.

Second, based on these answers, do things that don't scale (http://paulgraham.com/ds.html). Actually talk to your customers and figure out what problems they have, and what solutions you can give them. In many user interviews, customers will try to give you solutions but that's not their job, their job is to identify their problems, yours is the job to fix them.

Re:I got 400 signups with a video of a product that didn’t e... by jfkebwjsbx on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @12:19AM (#23766852)
A UI prototype is not a product, much less a viable one.
Re:I got 400 signups with a video of a product that didn’t e... by satvikpendem on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @12:15PM (#23771314)
See the other commentors replying to my thread. MVP doesn't necessarily have to literally be a usable product, it just needs to validate a hypothesis.
Re:I got 400 signups with a video of a product that didn’t e... by jfkebwjsbx on Thursday July 09, 2020 @01:48PM (#23782902)
The very definition of MVP means a viable product. It has nothing to do with an "hypothesis". Sorry, but you are misusing the term.
Re:I got 400 signups with a video of a product that didn’t e... by satvikpendem on Thursday July 09, 2020 @08:14PM (#23786783)
No, I'm not. I've shown you examples of how I'm not, and of how words change meanings, and if you do not believe so, then there's nothing else I can say.
Re:I got 400 signups with a video of a product that didn’t e... by ilaksh on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @11:58AM (#23771151)
I am pretty sure a lot of those people are going to be pissed off when they find out they bought a product that doesn't exist.
Re:I got 400 signups with a video of a product that didn’t e... by satvikpendem on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @12:14PM (#23771300)
They only signed up for an email list. However, even if they had paid, wouldn't this be the same thing as what Kickstarter does, except not on their platform? Hypothetically, one would offer pre-orders for a service that doesn't exist, then uses the money to make it exist. I don't see anything wrong with that.
Re:I got 400 signups with a video of a product that didn’t e... by semy on Wednesday July 08, 2020 @01:49PM (#23772329)
Exactly.
Re:I got 400 signups with a video of a product that didn’t e... by Jetroid on Tuesday July 07, 2020 @07:03PM (#23765214)
Why is the date set to 2077 in your video? Fallout fan?
Re:I got 400 signups with a video of a product that didn’t e... by orliesaurus on Tuesday July 07, 2020 @07:07PM (#23765259)
Reference to Cyberpunk 2077....maybe?
Re:I got 400 signups with a video of a product that didn’t e... by satvikpendem on Tuesday July 07, 2020 @07:30PM (#23765441)
Correct.