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Re:De-escalating social media conflict by guerrilla on Sunday July 05, 2020 @02:06AM (#23736922)
> fascists on both the far-left

While I appreciate your comment otherwise, fascism is universally agreed to be a far-right ideology and claiming otherwise at this point in history can't really be taken as anything but inflammatory, which isn't what belongs here in an otherwise insightful comment.

Re:De-escalating social media conflict by tomjen3 on Sunday July 05, 2020 @06:30AM (#23737748)
There is not universal agreement that the earth is round.

But a better word choice by op might have been extreme authoritarians, but a sub-optimal word choice hardly makes a comment intentionally inflammatory.

Re:De-escalating social media conflict by sukilot on Sunday July 05, 2020 @08:27AM (#23738182)
Left and right are arbitrary labels applied to the two largest opposing parties in a country. They aren't ideologies.
Re:De-escalating social media conflict by guerrilla on Sunday July 05, 2020 @08:55AM (#23738321)
Left and right are indeed not ideologies but properties of ideologies and they are well-defined in mainstream political science models of classification. In all of those models, fascism is a far-right ideology.
Re:De-escalating social media conflict by camillomiller on Sunday July 05, 2020 @02:48AM (#23737031)
Good people on both sides...
[dead]
Re:De-escalating social media conflict by mirimir on Sunday July 05, 2020 @04:01AM (#23737251)
Just how did they "prove" that? And just who is doing the "imposing" here?
Re:De-escalating social media conflict by wolco on Sunday July 05, 2020 @02:14PM (#23740660)
Parent poster is the who.

Proof can be found in the aggressive tone and imposing the opinion that only the right can be this way.

Leave a little room for discussion.

Re:De-escalating social media conflict by mirimir on Sunday July 05, 2020 @05:30PM (#23742212)
Hey, it's just an opinion. And it's arguably not clear-cut. Or at least, the Wikipedia article doesn't think so.
Re:De-escalating social media conflict by mirimir on Sunday July 05, 2020 @03:43AM (#23737190)
Actually the full quote is:

> fascists on both the far-left and far-right of the political debate

According to Merriam-Webster, fascism is:[0]

> a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

It's true that some on both the "left" and "right" (which is an absurdly simplistic one-dimensional distinction) are over-the-top extremist and forcibly suppress their opposition. However, that's only one aspect of the definition of "fascist".

Even so, Merriam-Webster doesn't restrict fascism to the right wing, so I defer to it. But Wikipedia does.[1]

Last, I note that the Soviet Union was arguably fascist. While it didn't exalt any nation above the individual, it did exalt the Party, and more generally the state. And its government was certainly autocratic and dictatorial.

0) https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism

1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

Re:De-escalating social media conflict by pbhjpbhj on Sunday July 05, 2020 @05:47AM (#23737610)
>the Soviet Union was arguably fascist //

You appear to be starting from an assumption that everything USSR did, politically, was left-wing; and thus concluding that fascism can be left wing.

A dictator is diametrical opposed to left-wing ideology.

What you're doing is like saying uxoricide (murdering your wife) is part of FOSS, because a proponent of FOSS did it.

Re:De-escalating social media conflict by mirimir on Sunday July 05, 2020 @09:00AM (#23738352)
> You appear to be starting from an assumption that everything USSR did, politically, was left-wing; and thus concluding that fascism can be left wing.

No, I did not. Basically I'm arguing that the USSR pretended to be "left-wing" but were actually "right-wing". So perhaps they were fascist, but that doesn't imply that truly left-wing governments and movements are fascist.

Re:De-escalating social media conflict by wolco on Sunday July 05, 2020 @02:24PM (#23740739)
The USSR is what happens when you take left wing to the extreme. Go too far replacing free speech with right speech and you get censorship. Censorship requires a heavy police state to enforce.

It's the natural progression.

Re:De-escalating social media conflict by chinesempire on Sunday July 05, 2020 @07:23AM (#23737921)
> the Soviet Union was arguably fascist

No, it wasn't.

Fascism is not simply "what you don't like"

If USSR was arguably fascist, so are the USA then.

Do you think bombing other countries for their oil or to seize control of countries close to the enemy borders (like in Vietnam) looks more democratic or fascist?

USSR has been at war in Afghanistan for 9 years, mainly because USA financed the resistance, creating and arming those mujahideen that years later became "terrorists" simply because they weren't needed anymore...

USA has been at war in Afghanistan for 19 years now (and counting) and the evidence to go to war were falsified.

Fascism is a specific thing, if we broaden the meaning of that word, anything can be called fascist.

Re:De-escalating social media conflict by sukilot on Sunday July 05, 2020 @08:28AM (#23738191)
We are long past the point of "fascism" meaning anything but "government that hurts people"
Re:De-escalating social media conflict by chinesempire on Sunday July 05, 2020 @10:56AM (#23739123)
As Italian, with a grandfather imprisoned by the fascists and the other sent by the fascist regime to die in Russia, I can tell you what fascism is and what is not and I can tell you we never thought it meant "government that hurts people" like nazism is not just "people who wear swastikas", if you use it that way, you are wrong.

My grandmother died few moths ago, she was from 1922 and escaped from the fascists on one side and the Marocchinate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marocchinate) on the other side, while my grandfather was in jail even if he was ill with tuberculosis, my father house was occupied by fascists and he had to hide from the day he was born until he was five, and when the war ended his father never came back.

I think it's not long past when people that suffered from it are still alive, don't you think?

You're oversimplifying something that's been very hurtful for my country, the history of my continent and for my family.

But let me make a simple example for you: fascism was about separating people in classes, USSR was about eliminating classes.

Fascism was about colonialism and they did unspeakable things in North Africa, justifying their actions with he excuse that "black people are not humans, they are like animals"

USSR never did something similar, because of people's race.

Fascism was about individualism, USSR was about colletivism.

Etc. etc. etc.

Just to exemplify for you what fascism is and what is not: US is more fascist than USSR could ever have been.

And not because I like USSR, but because words have meanings and it's not for you to decide what fascism means when we are the ones who faced it, in our houses, fought it, defeated it, and rebuilt from the ruins and the trail of dead fascism left.

BL matters, Italian lives matters too.

Re:De-escalating social media conflict by saagarjha on Sunday July 05, 2020 @02:51PM (#23740945)
That might be what it used to mean, but it certainly does not mean that now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#"Fascist"_as_a_pejorat.... You can call it wrong all you want, but the use of the word has been diluted enough that the meaning that you seek is not people believe when they use it.
Re:De-escalating social media conflict by mirimir on Sunday July 05, 2020 @05:37PM (#23742278)
Fair enough. So now it's just an insult.

But that doesn't mean that it's lost its actual meaning, when used professionally.

Re:De-escalating social media conflict by mirimir on Sunday July 05, 2020 @09:04AM (#23738377)
I agree with most of your comment. So I guess that I wasn't very clear in mine, if it elicited yours :(

> If USSR was arguably fascist, so are the USA then.

I wouldn't argue too hard against that. It's just that the US hides it better. Or at least, it seems that way at times.

But my main point is that the term "fascist" is being misused to mean extremist and intolerant of opposition. So many today who are "left-wing" are so, but that doesn't mean that they're fascist.