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Re:Triso particles have safety features that may power a new... by pdonis on Friday July 03, 2020 @05:07PM (#23727664)
The article is conflating two very different kinds of "meltdown". A meltdown during actual reactor operation is the kind the article is talking about in the first paragraph, and the kind that the type of reactor discussed in the article is designed to make impossible, according to the rest of the article.

But the meltdown at Fukushima was caused by lack of decay heat removal after shutdown, which is different from what could or could not happen during actual reactor operation. So there are two kinds of "prevent meltdown" that are required, not one. The article does not talk at all about how, or whether, the type of reactor it discusses would prevent a meltdown of the second kind, the kind that happened at Fukushima.

Re:Triso particles have safety features that may power a new... by nwallin on Saturday July 04, 2020 @01:13AM (#23730297)
> The article does not talk at all about how, or whether, the type of reactor it discusses would prevent a meltdown of the second kind, the kind that happened at Fukushima.

It's immune to meltdown.

The first important safety feature is the fact that it simply doesn't melt. The fissile material is contained in a ball of graphite (which is theorized to sublimate directly to carbon vapor somewhere north of 7000F) and silicon carbide. (decomposes to silicon and carbon somewhere north of 5000F) They tested the fuel at 3200F and none of it failed. The zirconium cladding on the fuel at Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, Fukushima, etc all failed somewhere in the ballpark of 2000F.

The second thing is called Doppler broadening; once the uranium fissile material gets that hot, it ceases to be able to sustain a nuclear reaction. The uranium nuclei are zipping around too quickly for thermal neutrons to effectively induce fission. Normal zirconium cladding fails before this effect can become significant.

The net result of these two effects is that you don't need coolant. As the temperature increases, the rate of decay decreases to the point where the device will passively cool itself without coolant. This equilibrium point is really stinkin' hot, but the entire facility will have been designed around this fact.

The reactor design itself is fairly interesting in its uninterestingness: the only interesting dial an operator has is the coolant pump. If you pump more coolant in, you get more power out; that's it. Turning the reactor "off" just means turning the coolant pumps off, which in most other types of reactors is the thing that causes the disaster. There aren't control rods, I don't think it even has a SCRAM facility.

Re:Triso particles have safety features that may power a new... by pjscott on Friday July 03, 2020 @05:14PM (#23727718)
The article is (confusingly, and a bit confusedly) discussing a type of fuel, not a reactor design. The type of fuel in question can withstand very high temperatures, whether from fission or from decay products, without letting the fuel out of its little protective shells.
Re:Triso particles have safety features that may power a new... by joncrane on Friday July 03, 2020 @05:20PM (#23727773)
So apparently Fukishima's power failed and the generators were damaged by the tsumami.

Why can't nuclear reactors at least have the option to power themselves?

Re:Triso particles have safety features that may power a new... by jabl on Friday July 03, 2020 @05:36PM (#23727870)
Normally they do, but when you shut it down you need something to get rid of the decay heat. That's why nuclear power plants have these emergency generators. Those failed at Fukushima, leading to the meltdown.

Some newer designs opt for passive decay heat removal, eg through convection.

Re:Triso particles have safety features that may power a new... by hansthehorse on Saturday July 04, 2020 @10:55AM (#23732634)
In American PWR designs decay heat removal post loss of power is accomplished by natural circulation. Height and temperature differences between the steam generators and the reactor vessel produce flow of primary liquid between the two. Heat is rejected via the secondary system. The limiting factor becomes make up water to the secondary side of the steam generators.
Re:Triso particles have safety features that may power a new... by im3w1l on Friday July 03, 2020 @06:56PM (#23728339)
Wouldn't convection also be impacted if the plant is flooded?
Re:Triso particles have safety features that may power a new... by acidburnNSA on Friday July 03, 2020 @05:37PM (#23727876)
They have to shut down during the earthquake to ensure they maintain coolable geometries. Cooling is easier at lower power.

Some Fukushima reactors did have some self-powered safety features, like a little steam turbine that comes from the boiling coolant and is hooked to a coolant pump. These features are at least a little related to why some reactors failed at different times than others in Fukushima.

But seriously, there is enough decay heat to do more of this so it's a pretty good point.

Re:Triso particles have safety features that may power a new... by sbierwagen on Friday July 03, 2020 @06:36PM (#23728236)
Fort St. Vrain ran the reactor cooling pumps off of process steam, but had lots of problems with steam leaking through the bearings and contaminating the coolant. Electric pumps don't have that problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_St._Vrain_Generating_Stat...

Running some kind of heat engine off decay heat should be possible, but it would be very different from the primary turbines, (You probably couldn't use it during normal operating temperatures, but it'd still have to be connected to the coolant circuit) have to be nuclear rated, (expensive!) and only be used in an accident scenario where you lose external power and the diesel generators are then destroyed, or run out of fuel.

Re:Triso particles have safety features that may power a new... by mhh__ on Saturday July 04, 2020 @07:38AM (#23731639)
That is the basic idea behind the test that the Chernobyl reactor was doing during the accident.
Re:Triso particles have safety features that may power a new... by VBprogrammer on Friday July 03, 2020 @05:11PM (#23727696)
They are designed to be operated at much higher temperatures because the use gas as a coolant where they can effectively use natural convection to remove decay heat.
Re:Triso particles have safety features that may power a new... by corty on Friday July 03, 2020 @07:09PM (#23728418)
Yes and no. Not all gas-cooled reactors can work completely through convection cooling without melting, some do need fans even to just remove decay heat.

Also, reactors containing graphite (as many pebble-bed reactors will) do need a oxygen-free atmosphere, otherwise the graphite will ignite. So only convection of the proper uncontaminated protective atmosphere will work.

Re:Triso particles have safety features that may power a new... by nordsieck on Friday July 03, 2020 @05:22PM (#23727779)
> the meltdown at Fukushima was caused by lack of decay heat removal after shutdown

This was also the problem at three mile island.

Re:Triso particles have safety features that may power a new... by acidburnNSA on Friday July 03, 2020 @05:38PM (#23727883)
In probabilistic risk assessments, almost all pathways that lead to radiological release in modern reactors is related to decay heat cooling failures.

That's the singular safety selling point of Gen IV reactors that have passive cooling features.

It was demonstrated in April, 1986 at EBR-II in Idaho, weeks before Chernobyl. Very few people have heard of this awesome capability.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimental_Breeder_Reactor_I...