> That ratio should be over 100:1, not 10:1, and certainly not 9:1.

I can’t say what the ratio should be...How do you know what that ratio should be?

You say cops should not be a “situation”, not sure what that means but for many of them responding to crimes is exactly what their job entails.

In other words As it relates to your ratio, is is possible a police office is 10 times more likely to encounter a murder/violent criminal in the act than a citizen? I don’t know, but that seems reasonable and probably jacks up to 100:1 to intervening to stop a crime.

I’m really not one to ask, I’ve been on all sides of it: I’ve been arrested (multiple times, including for the victimless crime of possession of marijuana); I’ve been the victim of an armed kidnapping; I’ve represented criminal defendants as an attorney. I can certainly say even being the victim of an armed kidnapping I felt more victimized more by the detective after the fact Than by the kidnapper, I can also add I felt more victimized by the insurance company of the gas station I was kidnapped from and their attorneys than either the kidnapper and detective (they literally destroyed the video of the crimes against me, falsely tried to cover up their destruction of the video claiming it never existed, claimed I falsely alleged the crimes and paid they same detective to testify the crimes happened to me across the Street from the gas station).

This is comparing murder to every instance of police killing someone, justified or not. Police murdering someone is much more rare. The ratio you are talking about probably is in fact well over 100:1.

I don’t know about the ratio being 100:1, but You are right these are Classified police killings not murders...that said, also consider George Floyd’s death was on track to be swept under the rug as a Justified police Killing until the protests.

Considering the fact that 99% of people murdered by police are getting a lot of airtime right now, I think we can say that the ratio is closer to 100:1.

So take Eric Gardner’s death in 2014, NYPD had him in a chokehold his last words “I can’t breathe”...justice dept refused to bring changes, I won’t get into right/wrong (murder/justified killing) but hell AG Barr sides against the justice dept.

Right, you know Eric Gardner's name, which means that he is one of the people cops have killed that many people generally consider more of a murder.

You add up all those people and the ratio is about 100:1.

Of course, it's only murder if someone ends up going to jail, no? Consider John Crawford, who was murdered by police, yet charges were not brought against them.

Now consider we have multiple data points of police committing murder and getting away with it. How can we argue that it's rare, given that we have several instances of police getting away with it and not being considered part of said recorded statistics?

Exactly how many "multiple", and over how many years? The case you cited is 6 years old. If this is occurring at the rate being suggested by the comment I replied to, we should be able to find dozens of cases from this (partial) year alone. That's a lot of George Floyds to go unnoticed, in a media and cultural environment that is very interested in noticing them.

When you have been given the right to kill people without legal consequence, the distinction become rather hard to make. There have been a lot of unwarranted killings by police that seem to have gone unpunished, how do you chalk those up?

If the goal is to make a factual argument, then the facts are that the # of police murders is less than the # of police killings, because some portion of those killings are justifiable.

Where we draw the line is debatable, but the person you were responding to wasn't really attempting to draw a line.

> Which means your chances of dying during an encounter with a random civilian are about 30 times less than your chance of dying during an encounter with a LEO.

The vast majority of police killings are of people who were armed and chose to get in a fight with them. Even of the few unarmed cases, most of them were asking for it. So if you're just going about minding your own business, the chance is minuscule.

> The vast majority of police killings are of people who were armed and chose to get in a fight with them

As the NY State report on police-on-police shootings I posted an article about elsewhere in the thread notes, rapidly turning your head to identify the source of a verbal command from a previoisly unseen police officer is the kind of thing that, to police, constitutes non-compliance and choosing to get in a fight with them. Even when you are an off-duty or plainclothes cop who has called for backup, and, much more likely if you are a Black or Latino out-of-uniform cop in that situation.

There is a database of police shootings. You can look up a representative sample of cases.

You are making a lot of assumptions there. The most violent people in society will likely have interactions with cops (more often than your average person) so surely that must skew the odds a lot.

>The most violent people in society will likely have interactions with cops (more often than your average person) so surely that must skew the odds a lot.

This is important point. Another one is that it's likely cops ARE some of the most violent people in society. For example, look at the instances of violent crime inside the home (i.e. when a cop is off-duty, so there should be no skew) - the numbers seem to indicate that domestic abuse is more common that not: https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/09/police-...