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Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by ugh on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @11:54AM (#2359910)
Doing that would be very much illegal in Germany. Isn’t it in the US?
Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by scott_s on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @01:22PM (#2360319)
Even if it was by the letter of the law, it wouldn't be by the application of the law. What's on the books is not what matters in practice. You need a prosecutor willing to press charges. Considering the circumstances, I doubt a prosecutor would press charges.

Of course, the thief could always sue, but even that's a hard sell.

Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by ugh on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @01:30PM (#2360359)
Why would the thief suing be a hard sell? If it’s really becoming a problem for him paying a lawyer some money to file the necessary paperwork would be no problem.
Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by scott_s on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @01:38PM (#2360402)
It would be a hard sell to a judge or jury. A prospective lawyer will know this, and may not want to sink time (and/or money) into it. You can sue someone for just about anything, but that doesn't mean you'll win.
Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by ugh on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @01:42PM (#2360418)
But why? That would never be the case in Germany. A personality rights violation is a personality rights violation. A thief doesn’t lose those rights just because he is a thief.

I cannot for the life of me imagine that the US judiciary is that unprofessional.

Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by mileszs on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @02:03PM (#2360512)
It's a privacy issue, which isn't expressly protected (by the Constitution, anyway). I doubt he (in the eyes of the law) has any reasonable expectation of privacy if he is placing his information (images, videos) on someone else's computer.
Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by scott_s on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @01:59PM (#2360490)
First, I don't think there was any violation of this person's rights by US law. Second, judges and juries are people, not automatons that blindly apply law. Considering the circumstances, I have a hard time believing a judge or a jury would think that the thief deserves a monetary reward.
Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by ugh on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @02:04PM (#2360519)
Nah, not a monetary reward, just getting the video taken down. I don’t think the thief would get some sort of monetary reward in Germany, either.
Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by scott_s on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @02:23PM (#2360597)
That's the only tangible outcome that would come from suing the person who uploaded it. Getting money for "damages" is the only reason to sue the individual, in this case.

If you want the video taken down, it would be more direct to go after YouTube. In this case, the individual isn't really the "publisher," YouTube is. You probably wouldn't even need to sue YouTube, you could probably go through the "inappropriate content" channel.

Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by loumf on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @03:30PM (#2360958)
He can probably just do a simple DMCA takedown. He made the video, so he owns the copyright. Even better -- just turn on monetization and buy a new laptop in a week.
Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by SiVal on Thursday March 24, 2011 @06:15AM (#2363469)
He doesn't necessarily own a video he made using someone else's equipment, especially if he didn't compensate the owner of the equipment for its use. If you don't produce intellectual property on your own time and with your own equipment, your full ownership of what you produce is not a given.
Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by nhangen on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @01:59PM (#2360491)
German laws are much different than US laws, and even if they weren't, I don't think anyone cares about a thief's personality rights. It's not a violation because Mark owns that data and the thief willingly recorded it on the disk.
Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by tyhjmhytgfv on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @02:54PM (#2360746)
What people care about shouldn't affect the law.

Suppose a 14year old girl stole some underwear - the store then videos her in her bedroom in the underwear and puts it on TV as an ad campaign. Still acceptable in the USA?

Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by Lewisham on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @03:23PM (#2360923)
On the contrary, what people care about absolutely is the law in the Anglo-American setup. Laws are black and white (sort of), but the world is grey. We have juries not just to ascertain guilt, but to decide whether punishment should be brought forth.

No jury will ever side with the thief for what is essentially mischief.

Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by nhangen on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @03:23PM (#2360922)
That's completely different, and you know why.
Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by Nate75Sanders on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @03:06PM (#2360817)
I can't believe this thread got this big over something this simple.

Whether you think it's right or wrong, a jury isn't ever going to give the thief any leniency here. I believe in some European countries there are professional juries? Perhaps Germany?

We don't have that here. It's just people off the street and they have no legal training and they go with their gut feeling quite often and they DEFINITELY will in a case this simple.

If the thief's apartment was burned down or he was murdered or got beat up or something like that as a result of the notoriety, then there may be a case. But not because of some public humiliation or something related to privacy matters.

This is just the way juries work in the US.

Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by ezy on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @02:24PM (#2360605)
For better or worse, the US is not Germany. Comparing the two won't necessarily be that enlightening. Consider, for a moment, why the thief in this case is not being prosecuted at this very moment. I would consider that even more unprofessional.

So yes, abstractly, a thief should not have to give up their rights, but on the other hand, it's a thief -- and there's a particular concrete US ethos that influences mine and the jury's thinking about this. We wonder why we should care about the rights of this particular person who chose to steal other people's possessions.

In other words, cry me a river. :-)

Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by jarek on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @02:29PM (#2360629)
First of all, at the moment he hasn't been proven guilty. Second, when and if he is, criminals aren't stripped of all of their rights.
Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by ezy on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @02:35PM (#2360656)
Both of which are true, but irrelevant to the comment I made.
Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by jarek on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @02:49PM (#2360720)
I'm confused. Are you saying that U.S. juries and judges are likely to overlook this in name of an, uh, ethos?
Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by chicagobob on Thursday March 24, 2011 @12:49AM (#2362903)
No. What I think everyone is saying is that we find it surprising that the thief recording a video and putting it on the victims computer (essentially giving it to him) would have any rights to sue for at all in Germany or anywhere else for that matter.

The fact that the thief knows that the computer is stolen property and is not rightfully his makes a big difference. For example, if he bought the computer for $250 he might be suspicious that it was stolen (otherwise why such a good deal?), but it is theoretically possible in that situation to give him the benefit of the doubt. Of course, that's not the case here.

Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by scott_s on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @03:26PM (#2360943)
It's not in the "name" of anything. That is, it's not a principled stand. He is claiming that people's prejudices and biases will cause them to overlook it.
Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by roc on Thursday March 24, 2011 @10:31AM (#2364207)
> But why?

Jury nullification. US Juries can find in opposition to the facts, the evidence, the law, the judge's instructions, etc.

In short, if you put a case in front of a US jury, with a clearly documented violation of a clearly worded law, you may still find the jury returning a verdict of 'not guilty'. And that's just the way it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification

Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by elai on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @03:43PM (#2361043)
Eeehh, when you hear lawyers in the USA say that you better shoot to kill if your going to defend yourself from a home invasion robber, other wise case law will allow that robber to successfully sue you for personal injury and disability, I think something like that would actually work.
Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by scott_s on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @04:33PM (#2361311)
Do lawyers actually say that, or do people say lawyers say that?
Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by jarrett on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @06:34PM (#2361777)
I don't think many lawyers say that. You're still exposed to lawsuits from the robber's family. With lawsuits, when there's a will, there's a way.
Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by jmaygarden on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @05:57PM (#2361652)
A guy in northwest Florida got his arm blown off in a mishap while stealing copper from a transformer. He successfully sued Gulf Power. The situation is analogous except for the fact that Mr. Bao's pockets are not as deep, and that's really the main thing a plaintiff's attorney is going to consider in a case like this.
Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by rmc on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @03:35PM (#2360992)
It's definitly illegal in Germany and the USA to steal a laptop. If the thief presses privacy charges, the police will probably press theft charges.
Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by grav1tas on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @12:18PM (#2360013)
Which part? I don't think he actually logged in under the guy's Facebook account?
Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by tyhjmhytgfv on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @01:12PM (#2360271)
Video recording somebody in the privacy of their home and broadcasting it without their permission or knowledge.
Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by masklinn on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @01:19PM (#2360306)
As far as I can tell the guy recorded himself and the data was automatically uploaded from Mark's stolen laptop to his online backup, though Mark is indeed guilty of broadcasting it.
Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by scotty79 on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @02:21PM (#2360589)
So generally you can plant a hidden camera operated remotely in some attractive item, like a laptop (hey! there's already one!), wait for the victim to take the bait ("steal" your laptop) and after that you can record whatever you wish without anyone pressing against you any wiretapping charges?

Even camera don't have to be started remotely. Hey, my camera is always rolling and sending stream to remote server. That's my laptop and that's how I'm using it.

Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by masklinn on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @05:09PM (#2361474)
Erm... You might have missed the part where the perp recorded himself.

There was no remote activation, there was no spying, there was no nothing. The perp recorded himself, and two month later as Mark was checking his backups he realized the stolen machine was still backuping itself.

Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by chris_j on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @03:44PM (#2361061)
That's not what happened in this case, of course. The laptop thief used the stolen laptop to film himself but was unaware that the video could be viewed by the laptop's owner. I'm having trouble coming up with an analogy for that one.
Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by scotty79 on Thursday March 24, 2011 @08:11AM (#2363673)
I wasn't drawing any analogy. I just wondered if this kind of invigilation is legal. I know thief started the camera and I'm not acusing Mark of planting laptop or wiretapping. I'm just curious if it's legal to spy on people using the scenario I described.
Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by gacek on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @01:31PM (#2360363)
The recording was done by the thief himself. I guess distributing someones video could be a copyright violation, but wouldn't be criminal. However activating camera/microphone remotely might be considered a wiretap.

Another thought: suppose the thief sold the laptop immediately, and the person recorded is guilty of buying a used laptop.

Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by tyhjmhytgfv on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @01:47PM (#2360444)
Sorry I thought the owner remotely started the video camera - but accessing the recording remotely could still be considered wiretapping
Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by zecho on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @03:25PM (#2360931)
Even if Mark had remotely turned on the camera of his own computer and started recording, I doubt wiretapping laws could come into play, because it's a) his property (see also: case law involving video recording of employees) and b) he's not law enforcement.

What it would come down to is reasonable expectation of privacy, but considering the admission that the laptop was stolen, most judges would throw this whole thing out if privacy was the legal argument. Any thief would know that a person whose property was stolen would probably go looking for it.

Mark's first amendment rights to publish data that is recorded on his property trumps the alleged thief's expectation of privacy.

The other issue that could come into play is copyright, but again, Mark is the owner of the property. Photographers who shoot photos on company equipment don't have the copyright of those photos; the publisher does, unless there is a specific contract between the author and the publisher granting the publisher (or the author) reproduction licenses.

Lastly, others have mentioned libel/slander. There's one flaw in this argument: Nowhere in the video description does it a) explicitly accuse the person of being the thief (so if he was found not guilty, the accused has no case there) and do so with malice or b) even make fun of the guy's dancing (which is a statement of opinion and wouldn't hold up in court).

Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by oihujyfgthyjuik on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @07:25PM (#2361967)
Wasn't there a case in the US where schools loaned children laptops and the administrator secretly videotaped the children in their bedrooms and reported them fro some activity?

I assume that this was illegal even though the laptop was the school's property

Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by zecho on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @08:07PM (#2362110)
Yeah, that was in Philly. There was a suit that <a href="http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/20101012_Student_... in a settlement</a> and I think there were a few other suits that I didn't follow to the end. That case was hugely different than others, though.

First, the <em>school</em> district <a href="http://www.boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.htm... something like 50,000+ photos of minors</a> in their homes and then used what they found in those photos to accuse the minor who sued of doing drugs. The issue question in this case is about who was doing the recording. In this case, it was the school. In Mark's case, the accused knowingly recorded himself (though he didn't know he was also sending that data back to the Laptop's owner).

Secondly, the school's problem was with the scope of what they were recording and where. In your office, your employer can tape you without your knowledge while you're at your desk or at the water cooler, but they can't record you in the bathroom, where you have a reasonable expectation of privacy . You'd certainly have a somewhat subjective expectation in your home, too, even if you were using your work computer. (e.g. The courts would find it reasonable to monitor your Facebook usage on a work computer outside of work hours, but would not find it reasonable to photograph you inside your home from that same computer.)

Lastly, there's the human element of the courts. A judge and jury are almost always going to be less sympathetic toward a school district that should have known better than they would be toward a plaintiff who admittedly took someone's laptop and recorded themselves on it.

Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by fbailey on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @01:12PM (#2360269)
difficult question the guy is practically storing his data on Mark`s harddisk- I'm not actually sure that it would be illegal here in Germany to publish the stuff.
Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by ugh on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @01:22PM (#2360318)
That’s irrelevant. The thief might well not be able to force the victim to delete all the things he stored on the victim’s drive but publishing it is something completely different.

Just as an example, if you take a photo of me with your camera and I explicitly tell you to not publish the photo you are not allowed to [0], even if the photo is stored on your own drive. I can’t force you to delete the photo, you are free to keep it and show it to your friends but you are definitely not allowed to publish it.

[0] There are certain narrow exceptions in the respective German law but they don’t apply in this case.

Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by yellowbkpk on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @01:41PM (#2360413)
You're telling me that if you take my camera out of my back pocket while I'm not looking, take a picture of yourself with it, then give it back to me, I am not allowed to publish that picture? Under what law would you sue? In the US you may have a claim under a libel law or similar, but it would be hard to convince a jury or judge that I was libeling you with a picture you took with stolen property.
Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by ugh on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @01:54PM (#2360463)
It would be illegal, yes. You are allowed to keep the photo but not to publish it.

Kunsturheberrechtsgesetzes (KunstUhrG) §22, first sentence: „Bildnisse dürfen nur mit Einwilligung des Abgebildeten verbreitet oder öffentlich zur Schau gestellt werden.“ (Rough translation: “Images can only be published with consent of the depicted.”)

Here’s the whole text (German): http://dejure.org/gesetze/KunstUrhG/22.html

§23 lists all the exceptions:

1. Photos with some sort of historic meaning.

2. Whenever the depicted persons are merely incidental to the actual subject.

3. Photos of gatherings, demonstrations and similar such events.

4. Basically, if it’s art.

Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by bcrawford on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @05:16PM (#2361506)
The guy in the video is dancing. Dancing is art.

Settled.

Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by ErrantX on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @02:36PM (#2360658)
In the US this is covered under the laws r.e. Personal release rights. So, yeh, you could be sued for doing such a thing. We have a reasonable amount of trouble with this on Wikipedia.
Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by jarek on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @01:49PM (#2360452)
Personality rights. How the image was taken is not relevant to whether or not it can legally be published, especially if you do so for commercial purposes.
Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by chicagobob on Thursday March 24, 2011 @12:54AM (#2362910)
That's ridiculous. Unless we are in a private place (like your own home, a private club, etc..)

For example, if we are in a public park, and I take your picture even against your explicit wishes, as long as I do not make any commercial profit off of it, I am pretty much free to publish it in any way I want (flicr, etc.).

If I want to sell it or profit from it in some way, you certainly have some rights. But, basically, if you are in a public place you have no privacy rights against someone taking a picture of you and publishing it.

Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by mileszs on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @02:05PM (#2360520)
This is not the case in the US. See: Paparazzi pictures of just about any celebrity ever.
Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by ams6110 on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @03:33PM (#2360981)
There is a different standard for celebrities in the US, probably everywhere.
Re:Mark Bao tracks down his stolen laptop and has the last l... by lancewiggs on Wednesday March 23, 2011 @04:51PM (#2361402)
Yes - they fall under "public figure" clauses, and lose a lot of their right to privacy.