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Re:Rents are dropping across the US by Androider on Wednesday June 17, 2020 @05:42PM (#23557122)
I bought into this mindset, and regret it. That's what you do when you have kids, move to the 'burbs, right?

We moved from a big city to suburban hell a few years after having a kid. In those first years, we took our kid to museums, parks, playgrounds, etc. all over the city. Now there is jack shit to do in the suburb we're in except going to the mall, cannot walk anywhere, have to use the car 100% of the time to even go to a shop. A backyard is a sad place compared to something like Central Park. I feel so sad for my kid. If the prices keep going lower in cities and remote work becomes the norm, we're moving back. (Un)fortunately my wife hates it here too, and we've often talked about moving back to a city.

Re:Rents are dropping across the US by danenania on Wednesday June 17, 2020 @06:30PM (#23557578)
I think walkable towns (as opposed to sprawling suburbs) offer a better balance. We moved from SF to Albany/Berkeley with a 1 year old and it feels like the best of both worlds. There’s a lot to do and see, great parks, interesting culture, it’s very walkable, and you can have a yard/garden, friendly neighbors, kids playing in the streets, etc.

Downsides are that it’s almost as expensive as the city (you can get a bit more space for your money, but not a lot more) and closer proximity to “urban” issues like grit, crime, homelessness, traffic that you can be more insulated from in the sprawl.

Re:Rents are dropping across the US by pmiller2 on Wednesday June 17, 2020 @06:47PM (#23557720)
I agree. Albany, El Cerrito, select parts of Richmond, and most of Berkeley are fabulous. I looked at an apartment recently with my gf in Berkeley that would have cut my commute in half. We didn’t take it because it was too small for us and our pets, but, damn, did we try to talk ourselves into it for a bit.
Re:Rents are dropping across the US by CliffStoll on Wednesday June 17, 2020 @07:26PM (#23558049)
C'mon over to Rockridge or Elmwood -- especially if you're thinking of having kids!
Re:Rents are dropping across the US by pmiller2 on Wednesday June 17, 2020 @08:07PM (#23558340)
I did live in Rockridge briefly, and it was nice.
Re:Rents are dropping across the US by greggman3 on Wednesday June 17, 2020 @08:43PM (#23558576)
Maybe you just chose a bad suburb (and maybe the city haters chose a bad part of the city or a bad city)

I grew up in the suburbs. I loved we had a 2 car garage with tools. My dad had a radial saw and built all kinds of stuff. We ran a neighborhood haunted house in it. We also had a pool in the backyard, all our friends came over often. We had a 20x30ft family room that was build to be sound proof so my dad could practice drum playing. It was at the far opposite side of the house from my parents bedroom and they let us use it for slumber parties often. There was a collection of hobby stores a few minutes away by bike. One neighbor had a small farm in his backyard with 4 fruit trees and various stuff in between. I loved all the neighbors. One had a go-kart that we would ride from time to time. My parents entertained often including an 80person new years eve party every other year. Could walk or ride our bikes to school where we launched model rockets and watched people fly radio controlled gliders.

That said I'm not dissing the city. I can't really imagine what its like to be in NYC as a kid but many European cities seem like great places for both adults and kids.

Re:Rents are dropping across the US by RHSeeger on Wednesday June 17, 2020 @06:06PM (#23557348)
Riding a bike/scooter in the cul de sac, playing in the woods, driving over to the town square and wandering around for a while. There's tons of things to do in the suburbs. There's tons of things to do in the city. Really, it depends what you like.

Personally, I prefer to take my car to the shop because I don't want to carry a car load of stuff home. And Central Park is something I like to visit, but I wouldn't send a young child to play there by themselves.

Re:Rents are dropping across the US by rustybelt on Thursday June 18, 2020 @10:21AM (#23563352)
"The suburbs" is such a broad category that it's practically useless. Houston suburbs, for instance, are vastly different than Chicago suburbs in terms of walkability, character, and access to nature. Even suburbs in the same metro are vastly different in experience.
Re:Rents are dropping across the US by nkozyra on Wednesday June 17, 2020 @07:08PM (#23557916)
With you on this. There was never a lack of things to do in new York and with a tiny apartment little incentive to stay home.

Back in the suburbs now and the kid would spend his Saturdays watching TV if I didn't stop him because the alternative is ... the one playground in driving distance? The movies? Target?

People really underestimate the volume of activity you can put in front of a young kid in a city.

Re:Rents are dropping across the US by gen220 on Wednesday June 17, 2020 @08:40PM (#23558562)
Some things I’ve observed about families I know who seem to have suburban life figured out:

- regular (meaning periodic) physical activity is essential, for the adults and kids. Sports leagues, gym classes, whatever. If you’re not into sportsy physical activity, you need a physical hobby like woodworking, gardening, or literally anything to get your blood flowing

- your weekly schedule looks totally different as the seasons change. Skiing in winter, hiking and camping in the fall, beach vacationing in the summer, etc

- regular domestic vacations to escape the boredom, and to make you long for home.

- regular home improvement, to make your life in your house 1% better every month

- regular visits with nearby close friends and family. At least one visit to a close relation every two weeks. Non negotiable, and ideally tied to holidays

- overdo your holidays. Birthdays are huge, winter holiday (Christmas etc) is huge. Thanksgiving is huge. It has nothing to do with the meaning of the holiday and everything to do with getting people together.

These kinds of things are less achievable in the city because you have less money, less space, less autonomy. Just my observations from happy suburban families, I’m curious to see others’ notes.

Re:Rents are dropping across the US by colinmhayes on Wednesday June 17, 2020 @10:00PM (#23559013)
What you've described sounds pretty suffocating to a kid. Growing up in the city my parents didn't have to force me to do a bunch of mundane bullshit, there was so much to do I was able to find cool stuff on my own.
Re:Rents are dropping across the US by gen220 on Wednesday June 17, 2020 @10:38PM (#23559253)
I mean yeah, if you force your kids to do this stuff they’re going to hate it? I think you might be discounting the fact that many kids love to do these kinds of things, and also the role the kids play in deciding what to do.

The idea is to expose your kids to a wide range of activities, and support them doubling down on an evolving handful of them. Avoid setting super specific constraints (you must play a team sport), and instead try setting goals (find a physical activity you enjoy and find motivating). From my perspective, parenting is about exposing children to their options, and making some choice recommendations where you have experience.

Parents can do that anywhere, and fail to do that anywhere. I do agree that if your parents aren’t doing a good job of that in a walkable city, kids are more likely to discover those options on their own.

Re:Rents are dropping across the US by asdff on Thursday June 18, 2020 @02:21AM (#23560308)
I do all of these things living in a city
Re:Rents are dropping across the US by gen220 on Thursday June 18, 2020 @10:46AM (#23563547)
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that they couldn't be done in a city. Depending on the city, you might even have better access to these activities (cooking classes, culture tours, etc.). However, these activities are invariably more expensive in urban environments, because you're competing with a higher volume of people for a small amount of space. And, where there are usually cheaper alternatives in the suburbs, there are typically no alternatives in the city.

For example, imagine that your kid wants to pursue rock climbing or small boat sailing, and your family lives in NYC. Or, you want to have a holiday gathering of 20+ people. The options exist but they're exorbitantly expensive.

Re:Rents are dropping across the US by wetmore on Thursday June 18, 2020 @11:55AM (#23564302)
For what it's worth plenty of kids get into rock climbing in nyc. There is a relatively high density of high quality gyms and nyc is 2 hours from one of the best climbing destinations in the country (in my admittedly biased opinion).
Re:Rents are dropping across the US by colinmhayes on Thursday June 18, 2020 @11:32AM (#23564012)
I was able to start a sailing team at my city high school because the park district gave us free boat and coaching time. They also had extremely cheap classes that anyone can take.
Re:Rents are dropping across the US by andykx on Thursday June 18, 2020 @01:27AM (#23560043)
One thing that will keep me from living in the city for the rest of my life is how much I enjoy having private outdoor space. Being outside by myself is one of my favorite feelings in the world.
Re:Rents are dropping across the US by fatnoah on Thursday June 18, 2020 @11:32AM (#23564016)
>I bought into this mindset, and regret it.

I feel you. We did the same, but that's because our son has ADHD and public or private schools in the city weren't cutting the mustard. We all miss the city and our friends there, and I miss walking everywhere. It was an awesome place to raise a child, but circumstances forced our hand.

Re:Rents are dropping across the US by sharadov on Wednesday June 17, 2020 @06:09PM (#23557394)
Suburbs suck, mind-numbing pits, I don't know why people with families love them. I think they all secretly hate them, it's just that they want you to share their misery by convincing you to move.
Re:Rents are dropping across the US by core-questions on Wednesday June 17, 2020 @08:34PM (#23558536)
> mind-numbing pits

What's so bad about a nice suburb? By nice, I mean "with parks, and nearby mountains, and community centers", not just cookiecutter crap from horizon to horizon.

Sure, there's no live jazz around, but it's not like the city is so far away that I can't go and get some of that when I want it, and meanwhile I can leave my kid's bike on the lawn overnight and it'll be there in the morning.

Re:Rents are dropping across the US by sharadov on Thursday June 18, 2020 @10:54AM (#23563629)
My definition of suburbia is the endless rows of cookie-cutter houses within gated communities, where the closest grocery store is 5 mi away and the eating options are TGIF or Ruby Tuesday. What you describe is where I live, its 15 min from downtown and I've great parks nearby, lots of mom and pop restaurants, hiking and biking trails.
Re:Rents are dropping across the US by core-questions on Thursday June 18, 2020 @12:27PM (#23564699)
You understand why those suburbs were created, right? It's not because people don't want to live in the city close to everything, it's because the city core has decayed and become a criminal hellhole, where the nice areas are unaffordable and the affordable areas are not safe to raise a family in.

Autonomous Zones are only going to make this worse.

Re:Rents are dropping across the US by asveikau on Friday June 19, 2020 @11:11PM (#23581239)
You are talking like either the movie RoboCop or as if the 1980s crack epidemic were still in swing. A lot has changed since violent crime started declining rapidly in the mid 90s.
Re:Rents are dropping across the US by ghaff on Wednesday June 17, 2020 @06:17PM (#23557476)
I'd point out that there are plenty of areas that are neither urban or classic suburbia. But I'm guessing you don't like more rural areas either.
Re:Rents are dropping across the US by sharadov on Thursday June 18, 2020 @10:57AM (#23563657)
I don't think I could live permanently in a rural area, but I would love to have a place where I could go down once every couple of weeks, with a big backyard, am sure my kids would love it.