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Re:Haiku R1/beta2 has been released by waddlesplash on Tuesday June 09, 2020 @03:52PM (#23470170)
That's not what I mean by "fragmentation"; I mean that the Linux desktop is a collection of different software projects (GRUB, the kernel, X11, ALSA, systemd, GNOME, ...) which are combined to form the operating system proper. Ubuntu is just as fragmented as any other distribution here.

In Haiku, on the other hand, the bootloader, the kernel, window manager / display server, init system, base applications, etc. are all developed by one team in one source code repository.

Re:Haiku R1/beta2 has been released by wadera on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @04:01PM (#23481387)
It's interesting that you don't mention the absolutely unusable browser that the project is continuing to develop, instead of using a modern mature browser like Chromium.
Re:Haiku R1/beta2 has been released by waddlesplash on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @04:25PM (#23481652)
WebPositive in based on modern WebKit (specifically a snapshot from a few months ago), which is the same engine that powers Safari. Is that not a "modern, mature browser"? The bugs in Web+ are mostly in our WebKit port, which is continuing to improve.

We have no interest in trying to port Chromium. Even OpenBSD, which uses X11 that Chromium already has a native backend for, has thousands of lines of patches they have to maintain (and spend hours and hours rebasing every upgrade). Haiku would have to maintain far more than a few thousand lines, as we would have to add a new graphics backend at the very least.

Firefox is better in this department, but has a codebase larger than Haiku itself, and none of us have any expertise there. If someone knowledgeable about Firefox's codebase wanted to port it, we'd be happy to help where we can, but there's only so many of us.

Re:Haiku R1/beta2 has been released by exikyut on Thursday June 11, 2020 @06:06AM (#23487097)
> OpenBSD, which uses X11 that Chromium already has a native backend for, has thousands of lines of patches they have to maintain (and spend hours and hours rebasing every upgrade).

Wow, you're not kidding. https://github.com/openbsd/ports/tree/master/www/chromium/pa... is positively scary.

Re:Haiku R1/beta2 has been released by wadera on Thursday June 11, 2020 @01:13PM (#23490979)
Please have a closer look at those patches. 98% of it is constituted of C preprocessor ifdefs. This means that most of them just enable the same features as Linux alongside other operating systems. Most of it is purely code configuration. Haiku instead reimplement many parts of WebKit, instead of relying on mature code. This is the reason why the WebKit performance on Haiku is so poor.
Re:Haiku R1/beta2 has been released by waddlesplash on Thursday June 11, 2020 @02:51PM (#23492103)
You do realize that WebKit has no native graphics API, right? It uses Cairo under GTK, CoreGraphics under macOS, etc. etc. So we created a Be API implementation, and yes, it needs more optimization. But you are acting like we are reinventing the wheel here or something...
Re:Haiku R1/beta2 has been released by wadera on Friday June 12, 2020 @11:51AM (#23500435)
Web+ is integrated with the Haiku Network Kit and other things, accomplishing nothing for the end user. Most of the performance issues comes from there.
Re:Haiku R1/beta2 has been released by tialaramex on Tuesday June 09, 2020 @08:12PM (#23472474)
Ha.

Recommended exercise for people who might be inclined to believe this hogwash: Go find where in that "one source code repository" for Haiku they implement RSA to make their web browser work.

You won't find it. After a while you'll dig down to a layer that just calls OpenSSL, the same OpenSSL you'd be calling on a Linux distribution. Was this developed by Haiku's "one team" in their "one source code repository"? No of course not and yet here it is, foundational to their operating system.

Re:Haiku R1/beta2 has been released by waddlesplash on Tuesday June 09, 2020 @08:28PM (#23472575)
Okay. And the same is true of macOS; they use LibreSSL. We also use libpng, libgif, libjpeg, etc. and of course WebKit for the web browser. Nobody is claiming that this is a 100%-from-scratch-no-reuse-allowed project. What's your point?
Re:Haiku R1/beta2 has been released by wadera on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @04:08PM (#23481479)
To use Haiku in a decent way (not complete, but close enough), you need to use all the Qt and other ported software. So your arguments don't stand.
Re:Haiku R1/beta2 has been released by waddlesplash on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @04:27PM (#23481671)
My main development VM for Haiku has no Qt software, or even the Qt libraries, installed. I'm using native apps for code editing, debugging, error messages, etc. So that's not quite true.

I'm not sure what arguments I made "don't quite stand" simply because you need to use Qt apps. In fact I was arguing that using Qt apps is perfectly alright! LibreOffice is not "native" on Windows or macOS, but people still use it there, yes?

Re:Haiku R1/beta2 has been released by wadera on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @04:52PM (#23481978)
What? Are you really using the OS you are developing in a VM? And we should think you are serious.
Re:Haiku R1/beta2 has been released by waddlesplash on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @05:34PM (#23482419)
Uh, both of my main machines have bare-metal installs and I do develop from them. But when you are doing kernel development, it's much easier to "unbrick" a VM than bare metal, yes?
Re:Haiku R1/beta2 has been released by wadera on Thursday June 11, 2020 @01:16PM (#23491022)
Everyone can read clearly it's your main installation.
Re:Haiku R1/beta2 has been released by waddlesplash on Thursday June 11, 2020 @02:54PM (#23492137)
I'm glad you know more about how I use Haiku than I do. /s
Re:Haiku R1/beta2 has been released by anthk on Thursday June 11, 2020 @12:47PM (#23490710)
The Be/Haiku GUI doesn't use QT at all.
Re:Haiku R1/beta2 has been released by anthk on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @09:27AM (#23476736)
Windows uses BSD code too, A typical Linux distro back in the day used BSD TCP/IP and a lot of BSD tols.

Show me a GNU TCP/IP stack or socket implementations. Oh, wait.

Also, OpenSSH. GNU LSH exists, but it's... ahem. A bit misrepresented; if not, not at all.

Re:Haiku R1/beta2 has been released by ac29 on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @12:49AM (#23474035)
I think the comparison was to, for example, one of the BSDs who also distribute the entire OS as one project.

Of course there is going to be third party code, its immensely complicated to "make a web browser work".