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Re:America is giving up on the pandemic? by mberning on Sunday June 07, 2020 @02:55PM (#23449654)
Why shouldn’t they? People were browbeaten for having the audacity to want to return to work. Now politicians are out marching shoulder to shoulder with thousands of other people.

We also were told that Georgia was going to be a disaster for reopening too soon and that has not come to pass.

It’s good to know that “believe science” and “stay home stay safe” are completely negotiable based on what is politically expedient.

Re:America is giving up on the pandemic? by dang on Sunday June 07, 2020 @05:16PM (#23450904)
Please don't post in the flamewar style to HN. We're here for curious conversation, not tendentious snark.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:America is giving up on the pandemic? by gbpz on Sunday June 07, 2020 @10:11PM (#23452926)
It is snarky, but an accurate representation of the current climate.
Re:America is giving up on the pandemic? by dang on Sunday June 07, 2020 @11:04PM (#23453208)
Even if that were true, it's not enough.
Re:America is giving up on the pandemic? by goatinaboat on Sunday June 07, 2020 @03:00PM (#23449695)
The “open letter” signed by 1200 experts stating that protesting was no risk, except for protests against the lockdown itself, was also mind boggling in its audacity.
Re:America is giving up on the pandemic? by mberning on Sunday June 07, 2020 @03:01PM (#23449720)
Right. As if the virus has its own agency and cares why you are gathering.
Re:America is giving up on the pandemic? by goatinaboat on Sunday June 07, 2020 @03:24PM (#23449969)
What I don’t get is if the virus is so woke, why it was infecting people without their consent?
Re:America is giving up on the pandemic? by robocat on Sunday June 07, 2020 @05:15PM (#23450891)
"One in every 1,000 Black men and boys can expect to be killed by police in this country". If we presume average years of life lost per black person’s death is 50 years, then Covid is less deadly.

To lower risk, black people could stay at home and wait for better times...

Re:America is giving up on the pandemic? by geomark on Sunday June 07, 2020 @08:13PM (#23452286)
Those numbers seem to be vastly more than reported numbers of police killings. Whom are you quoting? Because I like to keep track of who makes such exaggerated claims.
Re:America is giving up on the pandemic? by robocat on Monday June 08, 2020 @03:30AM (#23454397)
This references the source data: https://theconversation.com/police-are-more-likely-to-kill-m...

It says that between 2013 and 2018, about 96 in 100,000 (approx 1 in 1000) African American men were killed by police in the U.S.

Death from Covid is also lifetime risk.

It is a commonly reported statistic if you want to find other publications that say the same thing. Did you try googling for it — for example google: "1000 black men and boys" police

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Re:America is giving up on the pandemic? by dang on Sunday June 07, 2020 @11:06PM (#23453214)
If you continue to break the site guidelines we will ban you.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3."

Your comment would be fine without the first sentence.

Re:America is giving up on the pandemic? by mberning on Sunday June 07, 2020 @11:19PM (#23453278)
Please do. If you could completely delete my account that would be even better.
Re:America is giving up on the pandemic? by robocat on Sunday June 07, 2020 @07:14PM (#23451919)
Perhaps you could rewrite that to avoid implying I am stupid?

Your facts don’t affect the argument.

Re:America is giving up on the pandemic? by wwweston on Sunday June 07, 2020 @05:34PM (#23451062)
I'm team "stay home" and I have an uneasy relationship with these protests: I don't love protest as a form of engagement in the first place (it has its place, but its has a lot of limits), and an epidemic wouldn't be my choice for timing it.

That said:

* We had the "I don't wanna stay at home" and "masks are tyranny" protestors a month ago, too... but as far as I know, most governments pretty much let those happen. Hell, they let a lot of those happened with the protestors heavily armed. Protestors drew a lot of criticism but more or less got to do what they wanted.

* Similarly, it's pretty clear that most governments aren't thrilled about BLM protest crowds from a public health standpoint, but have adopted a range of tactics from "cooperate and keep peace" to "actively suppress." Protestors have drawn a mix of support and criticism and... in some cases got a beat down and trip through arrest processing, but in other cases kinda got to do what they wanted. It's not like social justice was just given a pass here; in some ways it actually has faced heavier resistance.

* If we're comparing motives here, are we weighing "the audacity to want to return to work"? Or the audacity to want other people to return to work? And how would we compare that with, say, the desire to be free from being murdered or otherwise singled out for selective enforcement or brutality by officers of state?

* Government direction didn't cause a retreat from social/economic engagement, it coordinated it. Most people would have done exactly the same thing they're doing now absent official direction, just at different times/thresholds, leading to the same eventual economic results but less effective epidemic mitigation. And the only thing that will get everyone back to work is either nihilism or trust that risks are well-managed.

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Re:America is giving up on the pandemic? by dang on Sunday June 07, 2020 @05:17PM (#23450910)
Please don't post in the flamewar style to HN, and particularly please don't cross into personal attack.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

See also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23450877.

Re:America is giving up on the pandemic? by SPQT on Sunday June 07, 2020 @03:24PM (#23449966)
You do understand that the poor are the one that suffer from the lockdown and its side effects? I'm making sweet sweet benjies while "working" from 3 bed home with garden and managed to gobble up stocks on the cheap when we were in sky is falling mode.
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Re:America is giving up on the pandemic? by umanwizard on Sunday June 07, 2020 @05:41PM (#23451117)
Do you have an example of any economic system in any country in the world, past or present, that could survive the majority of able-bodied people not working for a long period of time?
Re:America is giving up on the pandemic? by monadic2 on Sunday June 07, 2020 @07:22PM (#23451970)
How do you figure—where would the threat come from? We can certainly still produce necessary goods while the majority of the workforce stays home. In that light—every industrialized country, probably. Certainly other countries every where you look on every continent seem to be doing markedly better at this than the US, including countries that are opening back up. Our best parallels are the goddamn UK and Iran, the former of which is trying to hang itself and the latter we've been trying to choke out for 40+ years.

Anyway, I can't even guess how you think the economy works if you think we need to open up or something bad will happen that nobody ever names. Oh no, a U shaped recovery and not a V shaped recovery? How will my 401k ever recover in the next six months?!? Think about all that risk to my capital! :'( How can this country ever recover from such a critical loss of portfolio value?

Instead of actually ensuring people can survive this crisis, we've bought corporate debt and told people to get back to work. It's a goddamn joke of any understanding of economics. Honey, every person that's ever read adam smith could do better than that. "developing countries" are putting us to shame, and good for them, because we're on the bus in Speed.

Re:America is giving up on the pandemic? by umanwizard on Sunday June 07, 2020 @08:13PM (#23452285)
> where would the threat come from?

GDP shrinkage leading to a major decline in level of economic development.

> We can certainly still produce necessary goods while the majority of the workforce stays home.

Sure, I'm not claiming that we will starve to death en masse -- though that might indeed be a problem in India, it won't be in the US.

> How will my 401k ever recover in the next six months?!? Think about all that risk to my capital!

Not sure why you keep bringing up this strawman. Are you aware that the economy and the stock market are not the same thing? And that economic downturns cause real misery for real people, especially poorer people who don't even have 401(k)s at all?

Re:America is giving up on the pandemic? by monadic2 on Monday June 08, 2020 @01:43PM (#23458766)
I’m not sure why the GDP is a concern, frankly. How does this affect citizens in a material way? That is why I keep bringing up the 401k—to illustrate the absurdity of using an abstract measurement (GDP) to justify material loss of life.
Re:America is giving up on the pandemic? by umanwizard on Monday June 08, 2020 @03:40PM (#23459975)
GDP per capita is one of the most strongly correlated metrics to quality of life.

If you think people are living better in Denmark or Ireland than in Mexico or Turkey, how do you explain this other than GDP per capita?

Again, this has nothing to do with 401ks or the stock market. Some countries have been rich and others have been poor since well before stock markets were invented.

If you don’t think life is better in richer countries than in poorer countries, I’m not sure I can convince you of anything.