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Re:The Pitchforks Are Coming For Us Plutocrats (2014) by onion2k on Thursday June 04, 2020 @06:42AM (#23414890)
I have no idea how unequal I am to the people who I see every day

When someone drives past me in a car that I know costs the equivalent of 30 years of my salary I do have some idea of how unequal we are. It's a pretty big clue.

Re:The Pitchforks Are Coming For Us Plutocrats (2014) by jtr1 on Thursday June 04, 2020 @07:01AM (#23415010)
Yes. I wish we would frame these conversations about value more in terms of time. It's even starker when you address it directly:

>When someone drives past me in a car that I know costs the equivalent of 30 years of my life...

Even as a comfortably paid software developer, someone with a billion dollars owns the equivalent of ten thousand years of my life.

Re:The Pitchforks Are Coming For Us Plutocrats (2014) by roenxi on Thursday June 04, 2020 @07:03AM (#23415022)
Fair enough. So what if I gave you the same car and he doubled his wealth.

Now inequality has increased much more significantly. And you can't tell.

You haven't found a measure of inequality, you have identified that you can't afford an expensive car. Insofar as they are problems, the solutions to inequality and material lack are different from each other.

EDIT And furthermore, if inequality is the major problem, you're arguing you'd rather be in Scenario Now (no car) rather than Scenario Hypothetical (very expensive car). I don't like telling people their opinion, but I'd be shocked if inequality is going to be a factor in your decision making with that one.

Re:The Pitchforks Are Coming For Us Plutocrats (2014) by onion2k on Thursday June 04, 2020 @08:06AM (#23415524)
You haven't found a measure of inequality, you have identified that you can't afford an expensive car.

It demonstrates that someone can afford an expensive car and someone else can't. That's not a measure of the extent of the inequality (the car owner could be a millionaire or a billionaire), but it's certainly a signal that inequality exists. I know that the inequality is at least someone having enough to spend 30 times what I earn on a car, and could possibly be thousands of times larger than that. That is a measure of inequality insofar as it clearly shows inequality exists. It's just not a very specific one that tells us the extent.

Re:The Pitchforks Are Coming For Us Plutocrats (2014) by roenxi on Thursday June 04, 2020 @08:30AM (#23415716)
But you've still got no idea how much inequality is present - you've got a lower bound and 3 orders of magnitude error. They might have 30x or 30,000x times. You could take an action, halve inequality, and not be able to detect any changes. If you can halve the problem and not detect any change I don't believe you've identified the problem.

However if you doubled your living standard you'd know all about it.

Re:The Pitchforks Are Coming For Us Plutocrats (2014) by onion2k on Thursday June 04, 2020 @09:26AM (#23416248)
You could take an action, halve inequality, and not be able to detect any changes.

This assumes that halving the wealth of rich people would have no impact on the world other than changing this immeasurable inequality. That seems unlikely.

Re:The Pitchforks Are Coming For Us Plutocrats (2014) by roenxi on Thursday June 04, 2020 @05:59PM (#23422452)
Most that wealth was created in the last 20 years. Amazon, Google, etc, etc barely or didn't exist in 2000. If you are >20 years old, you have seen a world where there was substantially less wealth and inequality. It would be very easy to reduce the wealth of rich people by returning to how the business world was in 2000. Pretty sure Bezos of Amazon is the richest man in the world right now.

Destroying the wealth would be the fastest and easiest way to reduce wealth inequality that has built up in the last 20 years. It is a terrible idea. So the problem to solve is probably not wealth inequality.

To try and put it simply, halving the wealth of rich people is bound to have an effect - but that effect might be great or horrific for everyone else.

Re:The Pitchforks Are Coming For Us Plutocrats (2014) by nunez on Thursday June 04, 2020 @10:25AM (#23416905)
I feel like I should add an obligatory comment here: cars are a very poor indicator of true wealth precisely because luxury is explicitly designed to convey the opposite.

Now, private jets and yachts...different story.

Re:The Pitchforks Are Coming For Us Plutocrats (2014) by bottled_poe on Thursday June 04, 2020 @07:19AM (#23415143)
That’s not how markets work. If you gave everyone a Lamborghini, the value of a Lamborghini would plummet, so the wealth measure doesn’t move. Also, resources have to come from somewhere, and that has a cost. The theoretical you’ve proposed doesn’t hold up to much scrutiny and doesn’t seem like a useful model.
Re:The Pitchforks Are Coming For Us Plutocrats (2014) by roenxi on Thursday June 04, 2020 @07:25AM (#23415192)
> ... If you gave everyone a Lamborghini, the value of a Lamborghini would plummet ...

If your argument is that the person with a Lamborghini isn't materially better off in a real sense and that wealth inequality is therefore a social construction then I am profoundly confused if you are also aligned with the article's thesis that pitchforks are going to be involved due to wealth inequality.

The logical conclusion of that line of thought is to destroy the Lamborghini to promote wealth equality, which is stupid.

Re:The Pitchforks Are Coming For Us Plutocrats (2014) by nunez on Thursday June 04, 2020 @10:26AM (#23416913)
See also: Aston Martin