News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by aaronbrethorst on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @03:03AM (#23320184)
Or their family donated enough money to an Ivy to have a building named after them.
Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by koonsolo on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @04:34AM (#23320798)
Passing on wealth to your children is part of the game. Or did you think the game ends after 1 generation?
Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by im3w1l on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @06:13AM (#23321304)
Now you are moving the goalposts from singular they are good at the game, to their family as a collective is good at the game. A statement perfectly compatible with that particular family member being an idiot.
Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by fnord123 on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @06:30AM (#23321405)
Idiot usually means someone who doesn't know basic facts or has trouble anticipating consequences for their actions. But I think part of GPs comment was to note that the concept of idiot needs to be readdressed. For example, if your hypothetical person has a family network (just another tool; but a v. good one!) that helps them, then they choose to either stick with their family or try to strike out on their own. We're already discussing the situation where they have chosen to leverage their family network.
Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by Traster on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @07:02AM (#23321604)
I have never, ever, once in my life ever heard anyone say "Isn't that person smart, they managed to get their dad to give them a job"
Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by fnord123 on Thursday May 28, 2020 @03:58AM (#23334684)
And maybe one could respect people who go their own way to get out of their family's shadow so they can be seen as making it on their own. But if that's not the game then both people are 'idiots' (in this thought experiment).
Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by splintercell on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @06:34AM (#23321434)
Success is not guaranteed just because someone was sent to an Ivy League school by his rich parents.

This is the blank slate fallacy where people believe (for political correctness reasons) that any kid had same chance of success if he was given the same opportunity as the success of kids.

Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by throwaway553321 on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @06:31AM (#23321410)
> Unless by "good at the game" you refer to the skill of dropping out of the right vagina, like royalists do.

And some people are born athletically gifted, or extremely attractive, or with very high IQ and a temperament for grit.

There are lottery winners that lose everything in a few years.

Just because you are born into money, doesn’t mean you will succeed.

Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by Aaargh20318 on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @06:41AM (#23321476)
In the end it's not about the money. As you said, there are lottery winners who lose everything in a few years, and there are people who build a new fortune after losing everything.

That doesn't mean that being born into a privileged life doesn't have advantages, but it's about way more than just the money. It's also the connections you have. The best example right now is Trump, who is a complete and utter failure as a businessman yet people keep throwing money at him.

Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by iateanapple on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @07:09AM (#23321655)
> who is a complete and utter failure as a businessman yet people keep throwing money at him.

Perhaps you are judging him by the wrong metrics?

Trump has always wanted to be a “great man” of history while being able to live a life of excess.

Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by Aaargh20318 on Thursday May 28, 2020 @10:17AM (#23337516)
> Trump has always wanted to be a “great man” of history while being able to live a life of excess.

He's failing at that to. He'll go into the history books as the worst president the US ever had by a wide margin.

Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by iateanapple on Thursday May 28, 2020 @04:04PM (#23341929)
> He's failing at that to. He'll go into the history books as the worst president the US ever had by a wide margin.

Unlikely. Once the constant negative media coverage dies down the hate will fade as well.

Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by MagnumOpus on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @06:23AM (#23321359)
Which means the parent of the idiot was good at the game, but does not mean the idiot himself/herself is good.

Unless by "good at the game" you refer to the skill of dropping out of the right vagina, like royalists do.

Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by WJW on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @06:39AM (#23321466)
The child is probably playing a different game than the ancestor who acquired the wealth in the first place.

The game the (alleged) idiot is playing is "don't lose the family fortune". If you weren't born wealthy but want to be, you are playing the "make more than you spend" game in one of its variations. There is for example an obvious slow way that might give your children a better shot at the "don't lose the family fortune" game and there are also many also many higher variability games like the "lottery" and "startup" games.

Not every game requires the same skills and personality type.

Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by Cthulhu_ on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @07:03AM (#23321614)
It means that not only do they have a business idea (or stole one), but they have the network and (financial) risk buffer to develop it into a business.

One thing to keep in mind is that the majority of businesses and products fail. Remember survivorship bias. For every successful Netflix there are a dozen failed movie streaming services. Anyone who has had a few weeks worth of software engineering can produce a Twitter clone, but none have been successful.

Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by Kye on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @07:33AM (#23321788)
Mastodon does okay. It's not as big as Twitter, but people who stick with it are happy with what they have. All it did was flip the model: interconnected, community-funded instances instead of one big, expensive to run silo.
Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by koheripbal on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @06:19AM (#23321336)
I think you just proved his point. Going to an ivy league school does not make you successful.

There are many many unemployed useless Stanford, MIT, Harvard graduates in this world.

Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by brenden2 on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @06:43AM (#23321487)
That's true, but a lot of people think the school you attend matters. For example, in the context of hiring, if you have 2 otherwise candidates but you can only choose one, most people would choose the person who went to Stanford over the guy who taught himself to code or attended a lesser respected school (in most cases). Some companies are stupid enough to only hire people from fancy schools. I think Google did something like this for a while, but thankfully they stopped.

Thus, attending a fancy school is a big advantage if you've got the money or have another way to get in.

Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by jcadam on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @08:28AM (#23322182)
Yep, I've seen more than a few job postings over the years stating some version of "Must hold a degree from a Top 10 school." Who would want to work with a bunch of elitist jerks, anyway?
Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by 77pt77 on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @06:50AM (#23321524)
> There are many many unemployed useless Stanford, MIT, Harvard graduates in this world.

Is this really true?

All the statistics I've read suggest otherwise.

Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by 1bc29b36f623ba8 on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @07:16AM (#23321697)
Well, there is a lot of graduates from those universities to begin with, so it's only logical that there is a certain amount of useless graduates that end up unemployed. The same logic applies to the rest of humanity.

The real question is whether those graduates are more likely to be useless and unemployed than people who did not graduate from the same universities.

Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by haecceity on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @04:04AM (#23320597)
Sounds like they're pretty good at the game.
Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by vecter on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @03:13AM (#23320264)
He said success, not wealth. Yes, obviously someone inheriting their parents' billion dollar business is wealthy, but I wouldn't consider them successful unless they've done something on their own.
Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by pydry on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @06:05AM (#23321263)
It's often not all that hard to disguise one as the other. I worked for a guy once who was drowning in family wealth and all he had to show for it was a failing business.

After years of losses that almost nobody else would have been able (or willing) to sustain he made it into a moderate success.

Outwardly, at face value, he's doing pretty well, until you count the decade of losses which nobody talks about.

Another friend is a moderately renowned documentary maker. Again, facilitated by family wealth. Outwardly, the appearance is of being successful, which cost a fair chunk of family wealth.

I think in both cases, family wealth drove something akin to an obsession to appear successful, which they largely achieved and nobody mentions the uncomfortable facts about how they got there in polite company.

Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by beagle3 on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @06:24AM (#23321363)
Microsoft's division that made X-Box {,360,One} was in the red for years as well and lost billions before it made its first profit (I think it's now profitable overall, but I wouldn't be surprised if it actually didn't yet return all the money put in to it through the years).

Almost nobody else would have been able (or willing) to sustain the costs that made it into a success.

What matters is the bottom line.

Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by slightwinder on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @06:25AM (#23321372)
Failing is part of the learning-Process.

With more money can of course learn to fail in greater scale, but IMHO this also has benefits in it's own. Learning to think big is a skill of it's own. Small business plays by different rules than big business, even if they have overlaps.

And I also think how succesfull you really were can only be said after staying on your peak for some time, because some games go really really long.

Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by close04 on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @03:36AM (#23320426)
I like to think of this example [0] when I have the feeling that I got to where I am all by myself, and forget how many and how much others have worked to "build my boat", and how much luck was involved at every step.

[0] https://digitalsynopsis.com/inspiration/privileged-kids-on-a...

Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by abrookewood on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @08:28AM (#23322180)
That comic is brilliant.
Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by bergstromm466 on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @06:04AM (#23321254)
That was great!
Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by boffinism on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @03:16AM (#23320290)
No, but starting with wealth makes it much easier to succeed at other things.
Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by virgilp on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @03:13AM (#23320252)
That's not "succeding" though.

I like to give Trump as an example: everyone loves to blast him for being an idiot. Is he a good president? No. Is he good at the game, but most people totally miss what his game is? I claim, yes. It's unfortunate that he managed to play the US election system for his own purposes, but that doesn't mean he's just incompetent at everything. E.g. he's a rather good populist - that may not be a quality you like, but at that particular game he's not at all bad.

Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by mewpmewp2 on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @03:17AM (#23320298)
Which leads to the following: How do you measure if someone is a good president? What measurements do you use to claim Trump is not a good president?

Surely it can't be approval ratings since you can't expect public to understand nuances behind the decisions and what the president actually has to be doing? It can't be just GDP because GDP might have been going up anyway? It can't be what the president is saying in public and how many of those facts are wrong since this doesn't mean what actual decisions the president is making.

Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by thdrdt on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @03:31AM (#23320399)
Aren't there universal measurements for leaders/counties?

For example the Bible has a lot of wisdom like: 'If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.' This was already written some 2000 years ago and has been proven true over time.

So I would argue you could measure the amount of unity a leader tries to create.

Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by bergstromm466 on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @06:08AM (#23321273)
> So I would argue you could measure the amount of unity a leader tries to create.

That’s a nice one. Yet do you think then Hitler might be a good leader? (not a joke). He united the white German population in a time of great economic disarray - in both Germany and Europe. Maybe we should measure unity and cooperation with other countries? Global solidarity

Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by thdrdt on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @06:17AM (#23321325)
You have got a good point but I doubt it is true because a lot of Germans were against Hitler.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_resistance_to_Nazism

Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by heavenlyblue on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @07:40AM (#23321825)
> He united the white German population in a time of great economic disarray

Rather, he united the country because it was in an economic disarray :)

Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by michaelt on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @06:59AM (#23321584)
> What measurements do you use to claim Trump is not a good president?

Number of his supporters arguing that objectively there's no such thing as a good president :-p

Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by iateanapple on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @07:12AM (#23321673)
> Number of his supporters arguing that objectively there's no such thing as a good president :-p

That’s probably a bad metric because his supporters love him.

It’s the swing voters making those kinds of comments because they want to vote for him but he’s done some dodgy things.

Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by TheOtherHobbes on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @06:12AM (#23321300)
Some combination of GINI, average life expectancy, number of bankruptcies, business closures, unemployment, changes in all-cause mortality, median household debt, disposable income, educational attainment, and so on.

If you look at a basket of well-being measures as opposed to raw GDP it's hard to argue that Trump has done a good job.

Of course Covid has had a big effect. But there were many policy options for handling that, and Trump - and his far-right equivalents in other countries - reliably picked some of the least effective ones.

Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by splintercell on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @06:38AM (#23321462)
Never met a person on the right who considered GINI index as a good measure.

Regarding bankruptcies, unemployment, household debt Etc, Obama's first term would show really low score on these things, presuming that's all he had, almost none of it was caused by the actions taken by him during his presidency.

Re:A lot of “idiotic” things have reasonable explanations (2... by iateanapple on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @07:28AM (#23321759)
> If you look at a basket of well-being measures as opposed to raw GDP it's hard to argue

It is too soon to argue any of those measures.

You can’t take a single moment in time in the middle of a crisis to judge.