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Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by kayodelycaon on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @08:55AM (#23310499)
Let me get this straight, the author has a bad experience with one website selling ebooks, so they decide they’ll never buy ebooks ever again?

In real life, this would be the equivalent of getting one bad meal at a restaurant chain in a city you’ve never been to before, so you stop eating at that chain anywhere else, despite positive experiences in the past.

Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by leephillips on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @09:00AM (#23310543)
I think it would be more like deciding never to eat in any restaurant anywhere.

The headline says that he won’t ever buy ebooks, then lists good places to buy ebooks. I guess he is exaggerating for effect?

But it’s true, nobody should accept DRM. Here is the statement of the publisher who sells my gnuplot book:

“We believe that when you buy a book, it belongs to you. That’s why we use no ‘digital rights management’ or anything else that interferes with your rights. You can make as many personal backups as you want, and use the book on any number of your own devices. If you lose your files, you can just download them again, forever.”

Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by koheripbal on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @11:24AM (#23312290)
Yeah, I have a problem that directly contradicts the article content - even if it's the authors original title.
Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by kayodelycaon on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @09:04AM (#23310589)
Unless I missed something, the author states they never had issues with other services but they don’t say they intend to keep buying ebooks despite one bad experience.

One would hope the author is exaggerating but I have seen a number of people in my life be this irrational. I’m inclined to take the title as is given any lack of evidence to the contrary.

Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by tyingq on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @09:10AM (#23310659)
"the author states they never had issues with other service"

True, but then the author also says "So I bought it. For the first time in my life, I bought an ebook".

So I can't tell what is going on.

Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by salamanderman on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @10:37AM (#23311666)
I thought the other sites are giving away books that either had no DRM or the DRM has been broken, repositories of bootleg ebooks. I'm also confused.
Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by gwd on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @09:21AM (#23310771)
> Let me get this straight, the author has a bad experience with one website selling ebooks, so they decide they’ll never buy ebooks ever again?

It may be hyperbolic, but I basically feel the same way, because I had more or less the same thing happen: I saw a book I wanted to buy, it said EPUB; there was absolutely no indication that there was DRM, that I'd be required to install Adobe software, or anything. I bought the book, and after paying for it, was told about all this.

I was so furious I emailed them immediately and demanded my money back (which they complied with). But it certainly put me off buying e-books from random websites -- I haven't even thought about doing it since.

Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by black_puppydog on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @09:17AM (#23310723)
Seems to me that all (major) ebook retailers try to lock down the files in one way or another. So yeah, if the chances of having a bad experience buying ebooks are high, I can see why "just download it and be done with it" is a compelling offer.

I'm all for finding ways of letting authors survive, or better yet thrive. But the current market seems to cater to the publishers, not the authors (cf: movie industry, music industry) so I don't even feel all that bad about that.

To stay in the allegory: if it was common practice and somehow widely acceptable for restaurants to use boatloads of laxatives during food preparation, but they only told you so after you asked to see the manager, would you judge the people who just outright refused to eat out any longer? The stress of finding a laxative free restaurant would simply outweigh the benefit from eating out.

Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by ocdtrekkie on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @11:27AM (#23312323)
It's not that the retailers are trying to lock them down, they'll happily sell DRM free books. However, publishers in particular tend to be sticklers for DRM, and won't sell on your platform if you don't implement it as an option.

There are books I'd buy today if they weren't published by publishers which only distribute with DRM. If it isn't desirable enough in that case to justify buying a dead tree version, I just pass entirely.

Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by svrtknst on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @09:07AM (#23310620)
There's a hepaing of hyperbole on there, but my experience with buying ebooks is very similar - Aside from buying from e.g. pragprog, who don't do DRM.

When pirating books, I download it, put it on my ereader, and read it.

When actually purchasing books, I need to install Adobes proprietary DRM-program, open the book in there, unlock it with my account, then use the Adobe program to transfer it to my tablet.

Not a huge hassle, but pirating just works, and offers an experience that's infinitely more pleasant.

Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by svrtknst on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @09:08AM (#23310632)
Which is a shame, I should add, because I want to pay for the culture I consume, but vendors, copyright, and publishers try their best to make that process as wonky as possible.
Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by mercer on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @09:14AM (#23310695)
I sometimes find myself buying a book and then downloading a pirated version through Libgen. It's ridiculous.
Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by Onanymous on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @09:39AM (#23310947)
Funny. I actually do the opposite.
Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by mercer on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @10:43AM (#23311758)
Oh I do the opposite too. Possibly more regularly.

I'm very comfortable with pirating, but if I actually end up benefitting/consuming the product I try to find a way to pay for it.

Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by michaelt on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @11:12AM (#23312147)
If you're willing to buy from Amazon and use a Kindle it works pretty easily. One-click purchasing, automatic downloading to your reader, and suchlike.

(That's if you're willing to hold your nose about having DRM at all, the remote deleting of books, Amazon's near-monopoly and so on - personally I don't buy any ebooks I'm not willing to lose)

Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by svrtknst on Thursday June 04, 2020 @10:38AM (#23417119)
I prefer not to use Amazon, and currently use a reader other than a Kindle.

I do believe my reader has the same ease-of-use if I purchase books from the company selling it. Might be only if buying things using the reader itself, not sure.

Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by read_if_gay_ on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @09:00AM (#23310554)
You raise a valid point, but I have had a similar experience and I think ebooks indeed are in their golden age of piracy right now, like movies before Netflix came along or video games before Steam.

Libgen has everything and it's so much easier than dealing with online retailers and Adobe's bullshit. If you know stores that sell DRM-free ebooks I'd be very interested.

Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by Mediterraneo10 on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @01:31PM (#23313992)
It is worth pointing out that Libgen doesn’t have everything, just a portion of books that have been digitized by publishers. For older and now out-of-print books, or for genres like poetry where only a few authors are ever given the ebook treatment, you won’t find that content on Libgen unless someone does the work of scanning it. And even if someone does scan it, you’re going to just get a PDF or DJVU file, not a beautifully formatted EPUB for your e-reader.

I have been a Libgen user and contributor for many years now, but I find myself simply buying more and more physical books, since so much of what I want to read is not available on Libgen or anywhere else digitally.

Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by kayodelycaon on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @09:15AM (#23310706)
I’ll leave finding DRM-free ebooks as an exercise for the reader. There are a number of small publishers offering their books without DRM. Some genres are easier than others.

Tor went DRM-free many years ago. I know their catalog is on Amazon.

Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by read_if_gay_ on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @09:32AM (#23310868)
Sorry, I just realized that question was poorly stated. It misses an important point: there has to be a decently sized catalog. It doesn't need to rival Libgen, but it should be something that covers most of your bases. Sorry for kinda moving the goalposts here, but right now, most of the time, looking for a particular book you can't get your hands on it DRM free without going to Libgen. That's the thing which has to change.
Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by input_sh on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @01:05PM (#23313616)
If you're looking for tech-related ebooks, check out ebooks.com. There's 49185 in their technology category that's DRM-free, including O'Reilly books.
Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by akho on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @09:25AM (#23310811)
I did not find the book they wanted on libgen. Libgen is not perfect.
Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by crimsonalucard1 on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @10:27AM (#23311556)
More like he already has a political stance on ebooks and he just used this one example to further his political agenda.

There's a reason why companies put customers through all this garbage and the reason is because I can easily pirate these books. So the story isn't as one sided as this guy makes it out to be. It's a contentious issue between customer rights of ownership and piracy.

Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by yjftsjthsd-h on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @12:34PM (#23313214)
> There's a reason why companies put customers through all this garbage and the reason is because I can easily pirate these books.

There's a reason why customers pirate and the reason is because companies put customers through all this garbage.

Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by crimsonalucard1 on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @02:10PM (#23314471)
Well it's a bit of a chicken and egg problem, who started it? Customers pirating or companies adding DRM to their products?

I would wager that there's a good number of people who pirate things for the simple reason of them not wanting to pay for anything. This is the catalyst.

Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by jaybeeayyy on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @09:01AM (#23310556)
I think the author typically pirates e-books and the one time he tries to purchase one, he has this experience and decides he will continue to pirate them.

So really it's like if someone usually takes food off the hot plate at a restaurant to steal it, and the one time they sit down and pay it's a shitty experience so they decide they're going to keep stealing lol.

Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by gmuslera on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @09:18AM (#23310742)
When you are treated like a thief (and get additional harm like being forced to install spyware) because you did the legal thing and purchased a book you know that you are in the wrong side of the lane.

Same happened with music (Sony had rootkit bundled in their CDs), DVDs (the FBI warning screen), games and so on. You get punished if you try to be a good behaving customer.

Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by jack1243star on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @09:06AM (#23310607)
If paying results in a worse experience than having to steal, then the business is indeed questionable.
Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by fastball on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @10:51AM (#23311878)
Paying is always a worse experience than stealing, until you get caught.

It's very hard to get caught and prosecuted for piracy though, which is why the "experience" is so much better.

Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by znpy on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @11:23AM (#23312277)
> Paying is always a worse experience than stealing, until you get caught.

Nah.

Take netflix for example: you pay your subscription and you get to watch movies. ez pz.

Now take the pirating route: you have to find torrents, such torrents have to have seeds, you need disk space, you need a torrenting app, you might have to leave your computer turned on for a long time etc etc.

Netflix is sucessful because they managed to make paying better than pirating.

Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by brendoelfrendo on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @12:51PM (#23313425)
I don't think the writer of this blog post would accept "Netflix for ebooks." Netflix still has DRM, and you definitely don't own any of the content you watch on Netflix. For someone whose whole point is that they won't buy anything but a DRM-free epub to load into Calibre, I doubt that a such an alternative (which already exists, by the way, in the form of Kindle Unlimited, Scribd, or any number of library apps) would be an acceptable solution.
Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by fastball on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @11:30AM (#23312369)
Nope.

Popcorn Time exists, and it's just as easy as Netflix. Much better catalogue too. It also downloads while streaming, so if you have to stop in the middle, you can more easily pick back up where you left off because it's already downloaded. Also you can then share this downloaded file with whomever you want because it's DRM free, but you can't send a Netflix movie to someone else, which was the author's main quibble anyway.

Much better UX for movies with piracy, even with Netflix, which is a great service.

Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by znpy on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @12:24PM (#23313078)
Yes, and I agree.

But while it's widely known, it's still less easy to use than netflix.

Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by ImprobableTruth on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @02:20PM (#23314598)
That's only because sharing movies isn't as easy (files are quite large) and law enforcement goes after pirates. If piracy sites could flourish without being disturbed, it would be absolutely impossible to compete with them. And this is the exact situation you have with book piracy.
Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by bleuarff on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @11:51AM (#23312683)
If that were true, Netflix would not have been the success we know. When the user experience of buying anything is easier than the illegal counterpart, that's how you win over piracy.
Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by fastball on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @11:58AM (#23312789)
Please see my reply to the other respondent about Popcorn Time.

Regardless, my broader point is a complete rejection of the idea that "businesses should just make getting X easier than piracy" is a reasonable point to make at all. The onus is not on the business.

Do you know what else is an easier experience when you steal? Clothes shopping. The UX is much better when you just walk in to a clothing store, pick out what you want, and then walk out. No waiting in a queue to checkout, no receipts, etc. etc. Clearly the onus is on clothing stores to make the experience of paying for the good easier than just walking out with them, right?

What about restaurants? Wouldn't it be so much nicer if you could just go in, sit, eat your meal, and then not have to pay? No having to deal with tipping, splitting the bill, arguing over charges, etc. Just walk in, eat, and leave. Clearly then the onus is on restaurants to make the "paying for your meal" experience easier than dining-and-dashing, right?

Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by hi_im_miles on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @01:20PM (#23313823)
Who else would the onus be on then? Ultimately if you don't like something that's happening to you, then it's on you to address it. The cops most likely aren't going to give a shit about someone seeding a torrent of your pdf, and while publishers haven't completely recouped sales since the advent of internet piracy, services like Spotify have definitely slowed the bleeding.
Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by dudul on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @09:07AM (#23310619)
And yet he mentions his good experience with GOG, No Starch, etc. I think he's just used to publishers who don't use DRM.
Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by slantyyz on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @09:21AM (#23310768)
That is, until there's a piece of content he wants that's not available from one of those vendors.

The problem with those vendors really comes down to selection, and they have a smaller selection. Like it or not, if there's something highly desirable and current, and he _must_ have it, he's going to have to deal with the inevitable pains of DRM, or resort to piracy.

I'm sure the bean counters at content producers have done the calculus of losing a certain percentage of prospective paying customers vs. convenience, and have decided that certain inconveniences are worthwhile.

Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by arm on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @09:18AM (#23310732)
Bit of a contradiction here, since he also says (before mentioning GOG, No Starch, etc.):

“So I bought it. For the first time in my life, I bought an ebook, because it's 2020, so why not.”

Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by slantyyz on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @09:29AM (#23310835)
I find the "it's 2020" statement strange in more than one way.

Yeah, ebooks are higher tech than paper, but I find the experience to be worse than paper.

I have no problem reading long-form content on a screen, but I'd rather be reading a long scrolling HTML page than a "paged" ePub or PDF.

I just set up an Obooquity server on my network so I can access my eBooks from any device, and I dislike the experience. FWIW, I dislike physical eBook readers and mobile eBook reading apps too.

DRM aside, I feel like "it's 2020", and the fact you have to flip pages to read eBooks to be somewhat ridiculous.

Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by arm on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @09:44AM (#23310999)
Just an assumption on my part, but the 2020 statement might be referring to the current state of the world, i.e., thanks to ongoing quarantines in many places, it’s easier to buy e-books than physical ones.
Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by icebraining on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @09:50AM (#23311072)
I don't know about hardware readers, but there are apps that let you scroll instead of paging. In Calibre, for example, you can switch to "flow mode".
Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by fastball on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @10:53AM (#23311906)
He also mentions Z Library, which is indeed an ebook piracy website.
Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by learnstats2 on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @09:39AM (#23310948)
>getting one bad meal at a restaurant chain in a city you’ve never been to before, so you stop eating at that chain anywhere else

I failed to do this after getting food poisoning once, thinking it was just bad luck/one bad restaurant in the chain, and I soon regretted it.

Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by watwut on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @12:24PM (#23313080)
Afaik, this is the norm and not the exception.
Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by IAmNotAFix on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @01:01PM (#23313564)
> despite positive experiences in the past

I think the author mentions it is the first time he buys an ebook.

Also if you think the problem is systemic ("it seems that all the restaurants in this chain behaves this specific way I dislike") then you might as well move on and don't try your chance a second time.

Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by znpy on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @09:30AM (#23310845)
> In real life, this would be the equivalent of getting one bad meal at a restaurant chain in a city you’ve never been to before, so you stop eating at that chain anywhere else

well, supposedly a chain will sell the same dishes everywhere.

If you don't like the menu of a certain chain, what's the point in trying at another location?

It's gonna be the same menu.

------

Coming back to the article: my advice would be to download that illegally. If in order to use your legally purchased content you have to go through illegal means (and become a pirate anyway) you might as well save those seven euros.

Obligatory XKCD: https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/steal_this_comic.png

Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by TomMarius on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @11:10AM (#23312127)
I am pretty sure that if you bought it beforehand, it would change the "ruling" on your piracy. At least in Europe, I am not sure about USA.
Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by cortesoft on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @11:23AM (#23312276)
Nah, because the crime is usually sharing the copy, not downloading (i.e. the upload part of the torrent is the illegal part)
Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by TomMarius on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @11:28AM (#23312334)
Torrent is probably illegal, yeah. Regular downlpad might be legal-ish (protected by court) based on the intent - to simply read a book like a book, without unrealistic expectations.
Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by znpy on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @11:19AM (#23312230)
Not sure about the Europe, but at least in the US the DMCA makes illegal to bypass/circumvent drm technologies.
Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by schwartzworld on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @05:45AM (#23321183)
FWIW, the author doesn't swear off USING ebooks, just buying them.
Re:I won’t buy ebooks anymore by vernie on Tuesday May 26, 2020 @09:47AM (#23311032)