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Re:The case for national paid maternity leave by paulcole on Monday May 18, 2020 @01:30PM (#23225510)
Happy to be in favor of this as long as there's an equivalent benefit for those who are childless.

For anyone downvoting: People should be incentivized to avoid having kids. It's without question the absolute best thing a random American can do to combat climate change.

Re:The case for national paid maternity leave by sokoloff on Monday May 18, 2020 @01:36PM (#23225603)
What would an equivalent benefit be?

Do you feel slighted that your health insurance covers some for cancer treatment or broken legs without providing the others with some "equivalent benefit"?

Re:The case for national paid maternity leave by paulcole on Monday May 18, 2020 @08:23PM (#23229956)
Higher pay for non-parents. Guaranteed sabbatical at work that isn’t tied to having a kid.

Health insurance is a gamble. Everyone on my policy goes into it making the same gamble. Some come out ahead, some don’t. That’s what gambling is.

Re:The case for national paid maternity leave by GordonS on Monday May 18, 2020 @02:51PM (#23226807)
I really just don't understand this sentiment.

Your taxes pay for a lot of things that you don't necessarily benefit from directly at a precise point in time, but which you or your family will quite possibly will at some point in your life, and unquestionably benefit the society you live in - roads, bridges, libraries, schools, medical care...

Even if you don't want to have kids, you wouldn't even be here if your parent didn't!

Re:The case for national paid maternity leave by viklove on Monday May 18, 2020 @05:39PM (#23228681)
What if I don't want to be here? Not like I got a say in the matter, I was dragged into this world completely without my consent.

Also, I'd argue society would benefit if everyone had fewer children. We'd all be much happier and better off if the world population was half what it was today, I'd wager. We should strive to stabilize the population, not grow it endlessly.

Re:The case for national paid maternity leave by GordonS on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @05:57AM (#23233126)
Do you have anything to back this up though? My understanding is that too many children is only really an issue in developing countries.

Also, not enough children can be problematic - just look at Japan, which has an aging population and not enough people to work.

Re:The case for national paid maternity leave by viklove on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @02:47PM (#23238560)
Japan has a problem with a declining population. I'm suggesting that we strive to maintain a stable population, not grow it endlessly or allow it to shrink. Both present issues.

Ideally we would have done this when the word was at about 2B, but it's still better to start at 8B than 14B.

Re:The case for national paid maternity leave by GordonS on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @03:23PM (#23238986)
The point about Japan is not so much that it has a declining population, but that it has a decline population of working age people.

And my point about the US is the same[0]. Rather than aiming to keep the population size stable, I'd think goals should be around the size of the working age population, and around a level of growth that's required for the US economy to grow.

I do take your point about the number of people on the planet, but I don't think it's really an issue outside of developing nations.

[0] https://eig.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Heartland-Visas-R...

Re:The case for national paid maternity leave by viklove on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @03:53PM (#23239360)
Can't grow perpetually, can you? So why should we try to hit the max before we stabilize?

Basing an economy on an ever-growing population is foolish. We should plan better than that.

Re:The case for national paid maternity leave by GordonS on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @03:59PM (#23239436)
I didn't mean to grow in perpetuity; I meant firstly a growth rate that replenishes the working age population, and secondly that makes sense for the size, density and economic state of the country.
Re:The case for national paid maternity leave by paulcole on Monday May 18, 2020 @08:24PM (#23229961)
> Even if you don't want to have kids, you wouldn't even be here if your parent didn't!

I could be so lucky!

I would agree with you if more people having kids was a benefit to society. If anything, because of climate change, we should be incentivizing people to not have kids.

Re:The case for national paid maternity leave by GordonS on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @05:56AM (#23233120)
> I could be so lucky!

Heh, so, what I meant to say here was more like:

"Even if you don't have kids, you wouldn't even be here if your parents didn't!"

Re:The case for national paid maternity leave by paulcole on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @10:15AM (#23235077)
I knew what you meant. The "I could be so lucky!" was in reference to me not being here.
Re:The case for national paid maternity leave by lghh on Monday May 18, 2020 @01:41PM (#23225684)
> It's without question the absolute best thing a random American can do to combat climate change

Climate change doesn't matter if there are no people left.

Re:The case for national paid maternity leave by thomaslord on Monday May 18, 2020 @02:33PM (#23226521)
We are in zero danger of dying out as a species due to a low birth rate. The Earth is massively overpopulated and the only ethical way to combat that is to incentivize everyone, equally, to not have children.
Re:The case for national paid maternity leave by lghh on Monday May 18, 2020 @03:26PM (#23227240)
> The Earth is massively overpopulated

Source?

Re:The case for national paid maternity leave by zanny on Monday May 18, 2020 @03:53PM (#23227550)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction

The combination of our global population and our resource consumptions per capita have devastated ecologies the world over and led to the deaths of innumerable species and biospheres.

You basically have the choice, then - massively reduce the resources consumed per-capita such that having billions of people doesn't negatively impact the planet or displace the last remnants of nature unsullied by human encroachment, or reduce the population so that the people you do have can consume resources without causing a mass extinction event.

When population reduction is as simple as "stop having kids" that is by far the least harmful mechanism to currently living humans to mitigate the ongoing disaster we are causing the planet. Trying to tell the current first world or developing countries to stop building roads, driving cars, building houses, using convenience products like plastics, stop building technologies that require scarce rare earth minerals that require extraction, stop using electric power in its myriad forms, etc is way more disruptive and harmful to those living today.

Re:The case for national paid maternity leave by qu83rt on Monday May 18, 2020 @02:19PM (#23226301)
I don't think that's going to be a problem any time soon...
Re:The case for national paid maternity leave by paulcole on Monday May 18, 2020 @08:24PM (#23229963)
Did we get down to the last handful without me noticing?
Re:The case for national paid maternity leave by oh_sigh on Monday May 18, 2020 @02:04PM (#23226071)
The equivalent benefit of being childless is that you don't have a child. Congrats!
[dead]
Re:The case for national paid maternity leave by zanny on Monday May 18, 2020 @04:08PM (#23227724)
The one child policy worked though. The 70s 2 child and 80s-2000s 1 child policies prevented 400-600m births. Almost all the consequences were a fallout of sexist cultures in China against women killing or abandoning their female children.

They don't need the policy in place anymore today because they got over the observable demographic hump where an industrializing economy goes through a population boom before social infrastructure and education lead women to drop their reproduction rates naturally.

The environmental impacts of 25-35% more people existing in China today would have been palpable. Even if, like most impoverished nations, the "lost" population would only have contributed the equivalent CO2 and environmental drain of a tenth of an American thats still the equivalent of 40-60 million Americans less. It was one of the most effective environmentalist policies in history.

Re:The case for national paid maternity leave by Gibbon1 on Monday May 18, 2020 @04:23PM (#23227898)
> Almost all the consequences were a fallout of sexist cultures in China against women killing or abandoning their female children.

I have no direct information. But I read a while ago that some of the gap is due to record keeping shenanigans by rural party officials. Meaning inconvenient female births are sometimes omitted from the records. And then quietly corrected later.