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Re:Electrons May Well Be Conscious by Madmallard on Sunday May 17, 2020 @09:43PM (#23217315)
I see absolutely no evidence or suggestion that consciousness is anything else other than the summation of changes that happened in our brain in combination with the input devices we naturally have. You have decades worth of changes that occurred to get you to the point now and it's very clear and easy to see how much _less_ conscious you were when you were younger.
Re:Electrons May Well Be Conscious by pontus on Sunday May 17, 2020 @09:49PM (#23217352)
I agree that consciousness is correlated with this, but having a lot of experiences over years does not explain to me why I feel things.

Similarly I can definitely see how there would be a mechanistic explanation for intelligence (basically just build a machine that acts intelligently, perhaps even claiming that it's conscious), but there's a distinction between appearing conscious and actually feeling something.

Re:Electrons May Well Be Conscious by mgamache on Sunday May 17, 2020 @10:19PM (#23217541)
The subjective feeling is just a brain state. The ‘why’ is due to whatever circumstances resulted in that brain state.
Re:Electrons May Well Be Conscious by zozbot234 on Sunday May 17, 2020 @10:31PM (#23217622)
But one can definitely ask how something seemingly as complex as a "brain state" can be directly experienced as phenomenology. How is it that we can so easily describe some things about our brain states, that we'd never realize by physically looking at what brains do and how they behave.

That's the "hard problem" of conciousness stated simply, and the answer to it would seemingly have to involve some quite direct access to some part of brain state physics - meaning that the physical properties involved are quite "basic" in some sense.

Re:Electrons May Well Be Conscious by wvenable on Monday May 18, 2020 @12:54AM (#23218499)
> How is it that we can so easily describe some things about our brain states, that we'd never realize by physically looking at what brains do and how they behave.

As a software developer, this should be simple. Programs have their own state that you can understand without knowing the exact formulations of electrons in the processor that ultimately make up that state.

X = 5 sure but good luck figuring that out looking at the motherboard of a running computer.

Re:Electrons May Well Be Conscious by goatlover on Sunday May 17, 2020 @10:40PM (#23217687)
So why are some brain states conscious and not others?
Re:Electrons May Well Be Conscious by Madmallard on Monday May 18, 2020 @05:30PM (#23228604)
It would be impossible for the organism to operate effectively if they were conscious of every single thing going on in their brain at all times. In fact many things you aren't normally conscious of, if you focus, you can become conscious of for the moment.
Re:Electrons May Well Be Conscious by mannykannot on Monday May 18, 2020 @09:02AM (#23221763)
There is no reason to expect that the self-aware conscious mind has full access to everything that is going on in the brain. In fact, from both an evolutionary and systems perspective, that would be extremely surprising.
Re:Electrons May Well Be Conscious by Madmallard on Sunday May 17, 2020 @10:16PM (#23217519)
Good luck getting to the roots of all your feelings when they can be based on any number of inputs and changes over who knows how long of a time.
Re:Electrons May Well Be Conscious by ars on Monday May 18, 2020 @12:48AM (#23218470)
A sleepwalker is not conscious, yet you can converse with them, ask them questions, get answers, you can tell them to do things.

In every external way they appear conscious, yet they are not. They are not aware of their own existence.

So consciousness is clearly more complicated than just "summation of changes that happened in our brain", there is something extra there, that we don't understand.

Re:Electrons May Well Be Conscious by wvenable on Monday May 18, 2020 @12:56AM (#23218511)
Perhaps they're simply not forming memories of their own existence. Can you ask a particular sleepwalker their own name and get answer? That might imply awareness of their own existence.

It seems most people want to make consciousness out to be more complicated in some way.

Re:Electrons May Well Be Conscious by Madmallard on Monday May 18, 2020 @04:35AM (#23219867)
Ever heard of amnesia? Works the same way.