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Re:Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust laws... by pb7 on Friday May 15, 2020 @05:24PM (#23197624)
How is Google or Amazon or Facebook a monopoly?
Re:Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust laws... by xoxoy on Friday May 15, 2020 @05:27PM (#23197663)
The antitrust lawsuit is focused on Google’s dominance of search. The specific question is whether Google has a monopoly on search. I think the case is pretty strong that it does.
Re:Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust laws... by dimator on Friday May 15, 2020 @05:41PM (#23197819)
How though? It's trivially simple to change the default search engine. Just because a product is dominant doesn't mean it got that way nefariously. I'm sure if you added up all the R&D over the years in search, especially considering the lead time in market, Google's numbers dwarf others (I don't have a citation on that, but it stands to reason).

Parallels could be drawn with Amazon and AWS's dominance.

Re:Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust laws... by aspenmayer on Friday May 15, 2020 @07:28PM (#23198714)
Why is nefarious intent necessary? The rules for monopoly and abuse of market power don’t presuppose such negative motivations, just negative market outcomes.
Re:Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust laws... by nemothekid on Friday May 15, 2020 @08:17PM (#23199089)
>The rules for monopoly and abuse of market power don’t presuppose such negative motivations, just negative market outcomes.

Yes they do. The reason MS got put on the chopping block was because they began telling vendors that they would charge them more if they bundled Netscape or Java. Intel got slapped with a similar suite when they began telling vendors that they would charge more for their chips if they sold any configuration with AMD chips. Similarly Standard Oil did the same thing - once they began telling suppliers they would squeeze them out if they worked with any competitors they got broken up.

It's simply not enough to have a dominant position - you have to abuse it to get slapped with an anti trust suite.

Re:Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust laws... by aspenmayer on Friday May 15, 2020 @08:55PM (#23199382)
I agree that negative intent from a monopoly power is actionable. I merely point out that negative intent is not necessary prior to regulatory action against or upon a monopoly power. I refer to another comment on this post for further info.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23198343

"Market Power"

‘Courts do not require a literal monopoly before applying rules for single firm conduct; that term is used as shorthand for a firm with significant and durable market power — that is, the long term ability to raise price or exclude competitors. That is how that term is used here: a "monopolist" is a firm with significant and durable market power.’

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-a...

Re:Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust laws... by int_19h on Friday May 15, 2020 @09:32PM (#23199613)
These rules have changed before, and they can change again. Look up the history of anti-trust and the major shift that happened after judge Bork authored his paper. There's a popular argument that things went downhill from there, and we should reverse that decision. Since it was all about how the courts interpret legislation, this change can be reverted in the same way it was originally carried out.
Re:Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust laws... by pb7 on Friday May 15, 2020 @08:11PM (#23199051)
Why is Microsoft not fined and/or broken up for failing to maintain an appropriate search market share with Bing?
Re:Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust laws... by scarface74 on Saturday May 16, 2020 @04:11AM (#23201428)
AWS is not that dominant. Azure is half its size and GCP is a serious competitor. Not only that, there are plenty of companies you can go to if you don’t want managed services and just want VPSs.

Besides that, Amazon itself admits that only 5% of Enterprise workloads are on any cloud platform.

Any company - or heck most tech nerds - can build our infrastructure to suit their needs without going to managed services. Whether they should is based on their business model.

Before anyone tries to “educate me” about what AWS offers, I know the ins and outs of AWS.

Re:Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust laws... by jaydz on Friday May 15, 2020 @05:39PM (#23197804)
Why is it dominant? Is Google is preventing competition from entering the market or is it because Google offers the superior product? Good luck with that in court.
Re:Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust laws... by _-david-_ on Friday May 15, 2020 @05:50PM (#23197905)
Just because they don't stop their competition from entering the market would not change whether or not something is a monopoly. They have 88% of the US search market share which is often consider to be in the monopoly territory.

Of course it may not be prudent to go after a company that isn't doing any malicious against its competitors.

Re:Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust laws... by drusepth on Friday May 15, 2020 @06:30PM (#23198285)
How would a government even go after a monopoly that isn't doing anything malicious against its competitors?

What would the punishment even be? Forcing adoption of other platforms to artificially inflate usage rates? Breaking Google Search into two competing Google Mini-Search products that aren't expected to cooperate and push search #3 and onward out of the market?

Re:Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust laws... by xoxoy on Friday May 15, 2020 @06:37PM (#23198330)
I don’t think this is about search dominance.

It’s probably about Google stifling competitors on their own search results page.

Yelp has complained forever that Google ranks their own reviews above Yelp.

Things like that.

Re:Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust laws... by pb7 on Friday May 15, 2020 @06:47PM (#23198426)
Yelp is a parasite that participates in extortion of small businesses. They need to be investigated themselves long before their word has any weight in this matter.
Re:Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust laws... by neotek on Saturday May 16, 2020 @04:37AM (#23201586)
"Good luck with that in court" only means something if the courts haven't been stuffed full of incompetent and dangerously unqualified judges.
Re:Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust laws... by dredmorbius on Friday May 15, 2020 @07:06PM (#23198555)
The antitrust lawsuit is focused on Google’s dominance of search...

Not principally:

Much of the states’ investigation has focused on Google’s online advertising business. The company owns the dominant tool at every link in the complex chain between online publishers and advertisers. The Justice Department likewise is making Google’s ad technology one of its points of emphasis. But it is also focusing more broadly on concerns that Google uses its dominant search business to stifle competition, people familiar with the matter said.

From TFA.

Re:Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust laws... by 2OEH8eoCRo0 on Friday May 15, 2020 @07:35PM (#23198775)
Nope. I use Google, Bing, and DuckDuckGo daily.
Re:Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust laws... by _-david-_ on Friday May 15, 2020 @05:38PM (#23197792)
Google has an estimate 88% of the search market share in the US. (Its higher world wide if it matters.) Many people consider that to be getting into monopoly territory.
Re:Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust laws... by sidibe on Friday May 15, 2020 @07:26PM (#23198706)
> Its higher world wide if it matters

That seems dubious when it's blocked for 20% of the world population.