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Re:Vitamin D and Inflammation: Potential Implications for Se... by not_a_moth on Friday May 15, 2020 @02:05AM (#23189384)
Just listened to a podcast on this [1]

a) 95% of severe covid cases in Indonesia had vitamin D deficiency (n=780)

b) Darker skin in high latitudes is strongly correlated with vitamin D deficiency

c) In Sweden, Somali immigrants make up 40% of the covid hospitalizations despite being .8% of the population.

d) Vitamin D is also a hormone that regulates up to 5% of all gene expression while your immune system cells have vitamin D receptors

e) 70% of Americans have insufficient (a step above deficient) Vitamin D levels

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45rlZGRz6Qo&feature=youtu.be,

[Also] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_ZJ8YDOX6g

Re:Vitamin D and Inflammation: Potential Implications for Se... by progre on Friday May 15, 2020 @04:06AM (#23189990)
> c) In Sweden, Somali immigrants make up 40% of the covid hospitalizations

This number seems high, but may be accurate for northen Stockholm (hard to check as only confirmed infections and deaths are tracked in available statistics). Certainly not for the whole of Sweden. Anyway, while the vitamin D deficency may be a part of it, many Somali immigrants live in apartments with a lot of family, often multiple generations.

So, social class is the main factor.

Also, one medical doctor of Somali decent in Stockholm said that it was hard to reach the Somalis with information on good prevention, as health info was at first only available in Swedish and the official minority languages plus English and Arabic. Information in Somali is available now.

Re:Vitamin D and Inflammation: Potential Implications for Se... by nl on Friday May 15, 2020 @09:25AM (#23191882)
Plus a highly contagious virus transmitting quickly through a close knit immigrant community should be unsurprising to anyone with any idea about epidemiology.

This article (about the Assyrian-Syriac immigrants, who aren't as dark skinned as Somali, but are also hard hit) explains how they come into contact with a lot more sick people and thus transmit it:

Earlier this month, the country’s public health agency reported that people in Sweden with foreign backgrounds are disproportionately represented among those who need hospitalization.

That squares with the experience of Terez Kino, a resident of the city of Södertälje and member of its large population of Assyrian-Syriacs, an ethnic minority scattered across Turkey, Syria, and Iraq. She used to have five carers, all of immigrant background as well, who would come to her home and tend to her needs. Four are now sick at home with virus symptoms. Her elderly sister has also contracted the virus from her carers, and her brother recently died of the virus. Her son is now taking care of her.

https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2020/0427/With-scienc...

Re:Vitamin D and Inflammation: Potential Implications for Se... by Siham on Friday May 15, 2020 @10:10AM (#23192379)
Where did get that figure of 40% from?

Lack of information in Swedish had very little to do with why Somalis contracted the virus. Tegnell even pointed this out.

Re:Vitamin D and Inflammation: Potential Implications for Se... by progre on Friday May 15, 2020 @10:43AM (#23192737)
I don't know but on the 24'th of march 15 people had died of COVID19 in Stockholm. 6 of those where Somali. This is from a SVT article and one of the first where this is reported. 6/15=0.4 so maybe this is where the 40% figure comes from.
Re:Vitamin D and Inflammation: Potential Implications for Se... by Siham on Friday May 15, 2020 @10:59AM (#23192931)
The Somalis in the Järva area in Stockholm contracted the virus in early march. Thats why we saw those deaths at the end of march.
Re:Vitamin D and Inflammation: Potential Implications for Se... by deng on Friday May 15, 2020 @02:29AM (#23189509)
While that may be true, I'd really like a better source than a channel which otherwise deals with "supplements that lengthen telomeres" or the age-old sauna-detox myth.
Re:Vitamin D and Inflammation: Potential Implications for Se... by todd8 on Friday May 15, 2020 @05:22AM (#23190339)
I was surprised to learn a few years ago that saunas might actually have significant health benefits.

See the references below from The Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA), The New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM), and Dr. Patrick who has interviewed the original researcher.

[1] https://media.jamanetwork.com/news-item/sauna-use-associated...

[2] https://www.jwatch.org/fw109897/2015/02/24/sauna-use-linked-...

[3] https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/sauna-heart-presenta...

Re:Vitamin D and Inflammation: Potential Implications for Se... by deng on Friday May 15, 2020 @05:46AM (#23190455)
I explicitly said "sauna-detox myth", i.e., the myth that you can "detoxify" your body through sweating.
Re:Vitamin D and Inflammation: Potential Implications for Se... by shijie on Friday May 15, 2020 @09:23AM (#23191853)
I’m surprised to hear that you believe this to be a myth. The only sources claiming this to be a myth seem to be popular news sites referencing each other in a circular fashion. Here’s a detailed study on the matter: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3312275/
Re:Vitamin D and Inflammation: Potential Implications for Se... by jamisteven on Friday May 15, 2020 @03:57AM (#23189935)
There are at least 3 randomized studies on D and its affects on respiratory diseases.
Re:Vitamin D and Inflammation: Potential Implications for Se... by gridlockd on Friday May 15, 2020 @03:28AM (#23189793)
If you actually watch the video, they are not uncritical regarding the idea of lengthening telomeres due to a hypothetical cancer risk.

Then they point to two studies that show that Omega 3 and Vitamin D lenghtened or maintained telomere length against control groups.

The benefits of sauna are supported in a similar fashion.

You can argue that the studies are of poor quality, but that is true for most studies regarding medicine and especially nutrition. You gotta take a chance either way.

Re:Vitamin D and Inflammation: Potential Implications for Se... by shibeouya on Friday May 15, 2020 @07:49AM (#23191058)
I've seen at least 6 or 7 research studies coming to the same conclusion that vitamin D deficiency leads to more severe outcome. It's not just from a random channel.
Re:Vitamin D and Inflammation: Potential Implications for Se... by pjc50 on Friday May 15, 2020 @03:12AM (#23189726)
Yeah, YouTube is an anti-source for health information; far too many people selling something.
Re:Vitamin D and Inflammation: Potential Implications for Se... by mindviews on Friday May 15, 2020 @03:51AM (#23189905)
Here's the paper mentioned in (a) above that's the source of the claim: [1] https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3585561

Here is another paper with similarly stark data: [2] https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3571484

Table 1 in each of those papers show Vitamin D status vs Outcomes. The correlation between Vitamin D status, where Normal is >30 ng/ml (or 75 nmol/L), and death rates is stark.

From [1] (which had n=780 cases) here is the punchline: "98.9% of Vitamin D deficient cases died while only 1.1% of them were active cases. 87.8% of Vitamin D insufficient cases died while only 12.2% of them were active cases. Only 4.1% of cases with normal Vitamin D levels died while 95.9% of them were active cases."

From [2] (which had n=212 cases) here is the punchline: "Of the 212 (100.0%) cases of Covid-2019, 49 (23.1%) were identified mild, 59 (27.8%) were ordinary, 56 (26.4%) were severe, and 48 (22.6%) were critical (Table 1). Mean serum 25(OH)D level was 23.8 ng/ml. Serum 25(OH)D level of cases with mild outcome was 31.2 ng/ml, 27.4 ng/ml for ordinary, 21.2 ng/ml for severe, and 17.1 ng/ml for critical."

Note: the classification for outcomes was "(1) mild – mild clinical features without pneumonia diagnosis, (2) ordinary – confirmed pneumonia in chest computer tomography with fever and other respiratory symptoms, (3) severe – hypoxia (at most 93% oxygen saturation) and respiratory distress or abnormal blood gas analysis results (PaCO2 >50 mm Hg or PaO2 < 0 mm Hg), and (4) critical – respiratory failure requiring intensive case monitoring."

I want to see a dozen more studies like [1] and [2] to see if this holds up to replication.

The show notes for the parent video are quite comprehensive with links to references. The summary above leaves out the detailed discussion of the interplay between Vitamin D, the renin-angiotensin-system, the ACE2 receptor, and SARS-CoV-2: [3] https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/vitamin-d-covid-19

Re:Vitamin D and Inflammation: Potential Implications for Se... by disgruntledphd2 on Friday May 15, 2020 @04:54AM (#23190193)
Thanks for the links!

Interestingly, these papers together are much stronger evidence than either apart. This is because they use different methods. The OP is a population level study, while the second link you shared is a retrospective individual level study.

While I have some concerns with the stats in both papers (I'm always suspicious of p-values close to the magic number of 0.05), this does seem like interesting research, and potentially very helpful to dealing with Covid-19.

The irony of course, is that I suspect many of the Northern latitude people with high levels of Vit-D may be getting it through tourism to Southern Europe, which is very unlikely to happen this year.

Re:Vitamin D and Inflammation: Potential Implications for Se... by anpago on Friday May 15, 2020 @02:53PM (#23195887)
If you live in a country with little daylight for part of the year your going to consider supplements of Vitamin d.

Also pickled herring is a delicacy in the many countries which have fared well in Europe in the fight against covid 19.

Also oily fish like salmon and mackerel are good for vitamin D.

Yet for many Brits it's a fish we rarely consider but is one of the biggest Concerns about the UK denying access to EU nation's to certain waters I believe with Brexit.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herring_as_food

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickled_herring

Re:Vitamin D and Inflammation: Potential Implications for Se... by nradov on Friday May 15, 2020 @08:34AM (#23191410)
A brief vacation to southern Europe won't give a Scandanavian enough stored Vitamin D to last the rest of the year. Supplement use is common, and they tend to eat a lot of Vitamin D rich foods.
Re:Vitamin D and Inflammation: Potential Implications for Se... by distances on Friday May 15, 2020 @09:34AM (#23191960)
Furthermore, vitamin D is added to some product types. At least in Finland there is a requirement for all fat free milk to contain additional vitamin D.
Re:Vitamin D and Inflammation: Potential Implications for Se... by redis_mlc on Friday May 15, 2020 @06:59AM (#23190756)
> a) 95% of severe covid cases in Indonesia had vitamin D deficiency (n=780)

Indonesia is a developing nation, with most people still laboring as rice farmers and making $1 - $2 per day.

I'm sure they're deficient with any vitamin not found in rice, which they eat 3 times per day. (Rice is packed with calories, not vitamins.)

Also, due to corona, there is starvation in the cities. In the West, we use automation to ship groceries, but in Indonesia they unload trucks using manual labor. So the lockdown means they can't unload food trucks, or it gets delayed.

Additionally, many people have no income, or 50% of their former low office salary, and Indonesia is not a welfare state, so people cannot afford food at this time. Very tragic example of lower-income group receiving the worst treatment during this pandemic, basically famine.

It's totally unrealistic to expect them to hang on until 2022.

Re:Vitamin D and Inflammation: Potential Implications for Se... by nl on Friday May 15, 2020 @09:34AM (#23191961)
> I'm sure they're deficient with any vitamin not found in rice

Vitamin D generally comes from sun exposure, and people laboring outdoors are extremely unlikely to be suffering of this particular deficiency.

It's more likely to be older people who spend all their time indoors.

It'd be interesting to see this controlled for age of deaths.

Re:Vitamin D and Inflammation: Potential Implications for Se... by anpago on Friday May 15, 2020 @02:54PM (#23195915)
Many people in hot countries tend to cover up however hot it is.
Re:Vitamin D and Inflammation: Potential Implications for Se... by nl on Friday May 15, 2020 @11:21PM (#23200217)
They do, but it's still extremely unlikely that outdoor labourers are getting insufficient vitamin D.

The problem occurs when people in the same ethnic groups (with the same dark skin) start working indoors and actively avoiding sunlight (often because light-colored skin is seen as high class or aesthetically pleasing).

Re:Vitamin D and Inflammation: Potential Implications for Se... by redis_mlc on Friday May 15, 2020 @05:46PM (#23197869)
This is what I was told by two different people in Jakarta last week.

Not sure what the downvotes are about in this case.