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Re:Linux is Most Used OS in Microsoft Azure – over 50 percen... by dmw_ng on Tuesday May 12, 2020 @03:21PM (#23158470)
You don't see it on HN much but the Windows world is still massive, and there are still plenty of ASP.NET folk around. I'd suppose you only have to take half a footstep outside the "pure Internet services" sphere to start bumping into lots of Windows, in pretty much any direction you happen to step.

There are also whole industries where Windows has a particularly strong influence, e.g. (from experience) some parts of finance, petroleum, television, and I imagine things like render farms or other specialist graphics work that might have grown out of a once Windows-only desktop software cottage industry.

I guess it's also important to say, much as you might find a zealous love for UNIX inside many (computer) engineering-led organizations, similar loyalty to Windows exists in many more (locally under-represented) industries for reasons that are less likely to be understood around here.

Re:Linux is Most Used OS in Microsoft Azure – over 50 percen... by icelancer on Tuesday May 12, 2020 @03:38PM (#23158695)
Yeah it's huge. My industry is 95% .NET. Lot of [LARGECO] use Outlook, which means the entire Office stack is dragged into use, which makes LDAP the logical choice, and Windows management of it, and then the rest of the tooling because why not...
Re:Linux is Most Used OS in Microsoft Azure – over 50 percen... by StillBored on Tuesday May 12, 2020 @08:45PM (#23162071)
I think its a SMB thing. Basically windows owns organizations with less than 10-30 people. And there are a _LOT_ of those, and they do a _LOT_ of custom development for their little specialization. Its the excel sheets that grow into full blown applications, or the vm.net one off utilities someone hacked together that grow into the backbone of a thriving small business. Even the generic catagory SMBs (dentists, car repair, etc) end up mostly being windows shops because the owner gets quickbooks or whatever and runs the whole thing from a windows pc in the office.
Re:Linux is Most Used OS in Microsoft Azure – over 50 percen... by sk5t on Wednesday May 13, 2020 @12:26PM (#23168558)
I entirely disagree with the notion that Windows is strongest in SMB. Active Directory + GPO + various third-party device management stuff, plus the depth of Office-related integrations, and Microsoft's absolutely massive track record for supporting all kinds of uses, put Windows way ahead for large-scale compliance and auditing.

On the side of deploying and managing workstations, I would take Windows every single time over MacOS or Linux. For real, some combination of Apple Business Manager and JAMF is supposed to go head-to-head against AD+GPO? On Linux--Centrify, or something from Red Hat, that might well be more costly than Windows licenses (guessing here)?

Re:Linux is Most Used OS in Microsoft Azure – over 50 percen... by HeadsUpHigh on Wednesday May 13, 2020 @01:15AM (#23163686)
No way around using windows as a private medical practice. Too much bespoke software.
Re:Linux is Most Used OS in Microsoft Azure – over 50 percen... by genocidicbunny on Wednesday May 13, 2020 @05:24AM (#23165063)
Yep. I don't think I've ever seen a computer at any of the healthcare services I've used that wasn't either ancient and running some really old bespoke software, or wasn't some flavour of Windows running slightly less old bespoke software.
Re:Linux is Most Used OS in Microsoft Azure – over 50 percen... by mschuster91 on Tuesday May 12, 2020 @03:35PM (#23158656)
> and I imagine things like render farms or other specialist graphics work that might have grown out of a once Windows-only desktop software cottage industry

Much render farm/graphics work was once Mac territory but given Apple's ridiculous pricing and lack of server options besides stacked Mac Minis or support for NVidia stuff many have shifted away. Truly sad...

Re:Linux is Most Used OS in Microsoft Azure – over 50 percen... by yndoendo on Tuesday May 12, 2020 @09:51PM (#23162556)
I see it's size relative to locked-in technology from the past or what individuals already know.

Currently, a WPF developer, since that was the technology chosen by the previous developer, and cannot stand working with Windows 10. People praise Visual Studios but under heavy development, crash often. It is not designed for coding/typing. Visual Studio Code is better at that and has only been around a short amount of time.

.NET / C# is useful but frameworks like Entity are layered bloat where standard SQL is so much faster and cleaner to utilize. Moving from Entity to standard SQL reduced start-up time by 10 seconds in one application. All the benefits the Entity has is only if the provider for your DB back-end has those ability coded with-in it.

I actually miss being an embedded and full-stack developer writing C, C++, go, typescript, JavaScript ... Even writing cross-platform QT5 applications in Linux and only using Mac or Windows to build and package the binaries is more pleasant.

A big part is that Linux / BSD is focused around development where Windows is a second had citizen. From the register which prevents simple backing up and restoring configuration settings fro application settings versus a config.ini file or such, which can be stored in git. Or the directory System32 = 64 bit DLLs versus SysWow64 = 32 bit DLLs. Inability to use very useful commands such as rsync and lsof or even piping through SSH. Or forced to keep useless applications around/running/installed such as XBOX or Cortana.

Example: `echo -e "#include <stdio.h>\nint main() { printf(\"Hello, world\"); return 0;}" > hello.c && gcc hello.c && ./a.out`

Even the desktop environment in Windows lacks usefulness and takes more steps then ones in Linux. Windows keeps on adding bloat to each new version. Why do I need to have the ability to run 16bit applications around if I'm never going to run 16bit applications?

These are some of the reasons I only deploy Linux VMs on Azure. Lean and only retains what you need with simple backup means and deployment.

Re:Linux is Most Used OS in Microsoft Azure – over 50 percen... by dkarl on Tuesday May 12, 2020 @05:38PM (#23160225)
In the mid 2000s I was working on scientific computing software running on RHEL workstations for a huge oil company. One day our customer inside this huge oil corp told us the entire worldwide company was standardizing on Windows for desktops and workstations. He said not to worry right away, because it would take them years to rip his team's lab full of Linux workstations out of his hands. I'm sure that was a massive, traumatic, and expensive transition that they would not repeat while the institutional memory of it remained, so I imagine they're still on Windows today.
Re:Linux is Most Used OS in Microsoft Azure – over 50 percen... by tracker1 on Tuesday May 12, 2020 @07:19PM (#23161297)
That's rough... Unfortunately Windows authentication and access mgt software rules the world... I remember a lot of issues in a few environments with macOS over the years.

At least with wsl2 I get the Linux goodness and decent docker support finally, hopefully it can roll out of insiders in into GA soon so everyone can get their hands on it.

Re:Linux is Most Used OS in Microsoft Azure – over 50 percen... by mroche on Tuesday May 12, 2020 @08:09PM (#23161759)
> I imagine things like render farms or other specialist graphics work

Eh... outside of the broadcast motion graphics group, small personal/business farms, or educational institutions this is largely a majority Linux area.*

*I'm speaking from the perspective of public cloud farms and the feature film industry (for VFX and Anim). You can't escape Windows for select software and plugins, but if it's not a strict requirement by the software, then it's a business choice for other reasons (i.e. existing environment, staff, etc) because you will from a technical standpoint operate at a loss using Windows.

Re:Linux is Most Used OS in Microsoft Azure – over 50 percen... by dmw_ng on Tuesday May 12, 2020 @08:38PM (#23162021)
It's the same as infrastructure and server side.. from my corner I see a limited horizon over which little exists and only a few things over there might use Windows. Think of any industry: the first for whatever reason that came to mind was architecture. Lots of firms on ArchiCAD and that'll never change, there's no reason to. The value is not the tool or the platform underlying it, or anything else an Engineer(tm) will understand, the value is all in the buildings costing 1000x more than the 'tiny windows utility' that just happens to contribute to the result, kinda like QuickBooks or calc.exe.

It's a bunch of actual people designing buildings that cost so much more than a Windows license doing Real Things that have some lingua franca interface that has no reason to go Linux and probably never will, because in that business they're too busy with actual priorities to ever even discuss how the status quo could change. There are 10,000 industries like this, and probably 10,000 people to each of those who simply don't care, because to them the computer is and will remain only a tool. That's the world of Windows we can't see.

Re:Linux is Most Used OS in Microsoft Azure – over 50 percen... by mroche on Wednesday May 13, 2020 @09:03AM (#23166471)
It's different for those of us in Anim/VFX. Windows poses a serious business cost, not from licensing, software, or administration. The vast majority of images these days are still rendered with CPU engines. Windows incurs a 15-30% time increase per frame compared to using Linux or macOS. When your frames take on average an hour minimum to over 24 hours, with thousands of frames to render, that adds up significantly in terms of iteration, directorial changes, and making deadlines.

Once you get beyond small teams doing the work, this starts to play in massively. Pretty much all medium+ sized studios have their artist pipeline on Linux, reserving Windows or macOS for tools like Adobe, ZBrush or Marvelous Designer that don't have a Linux build yet. And where I'm at, the operating system itself doesn't even matter to the artists. All they need to know is "this button opens terminal, this command puts me in the right show, this command launches the hub" and from there they're in our GUI pipeline. Their environment is the DCC, not the OS. For all intents and purposes it's completely abstracted away from them.

That's not to say there aren't those that take advantage, creating custom commands and utilities to share with others. But for the most part the fact that it's not Windows or macOS doesn't bother them.

Re:Linux is Most Used OS in Microsoft Azure – over 50 percen... by RyanGoosling on Tuesday May 12, 2020 @09:32PM (#23162422)
Yes. I know Windows inside and out. I can easily navigate the UI. It does the job I need it to. I don’t want to spend my time inefficiently by toiling around in a Linux console due to some strange affinity towards Linux. I have a job to do and Windows is an effective tool I know and can use to execute the job.
Re:Linux is Most Used OS in Microsoft Azure – over 50 percen... by mroche on Wednesday May 13, 2020 @09:14AM (#23166556)
If you're going solo or as part of a small team it makes sense. If you have a team that can abstract that away from your so you only have to worry about your work, then whether or not you know the OS itself means nothing. We can bypass the terminal altogether if we wanted, it has nothing to do with personal wishes or desires and everything to do with maximum performance and how the industry (film/anim/vfx) evolved.
Re:Linux is Most Used OS in Microsoft Azure – over 50 percen... by HeadsUpHigh on Wednesday May 13, 2020 @01:24AM (#23163741)
Until an update trashes your computer that is. Or you end up spending your time inefficiently by toiling around google results for some weird issue that popped up after a forced update.
Re:Linux is Most Used OS in Microsoft Azure – over 50 percen... by macca321 on Sunday May 17, 2020 @04:46PM (#23215309)
Linux updates also cause issues.
Re:Linux is Most Used OS in Microsoft Azure – over 50 percen... by tpush on Tuesday May 12, 2020 @04:58PM (#23159718)
It bears repeating the the majority of software development happens on Windows (and I say that as a Mac guy).
Re:Linux is Most Used OS in Microsoft Azure – over 50 percen... by tracker1 on Tuesday May 12, 2020 @07:12PM (#23161254)
I'm glad that the next ".Net Core" will be ".Net 5" and hopefully once people start upgrading (those who resisted "Core" will finally come over), should see Linux as a target option more readily. Of course commercial libraries and dragging them by the teeth will take longer.

Most of what I've written in the past 5+ years either targets or runs in linux/docker. It's been a challenge pulling the teams up to spead.

Re:Linux is Most Used OS in Microsoft Azure – over 50 percen... by RyanGoosling on Tuesday May 12, 2020 @09:36PM (#23162450)
Was the challenge of pulling the teams up to speed efficient? Was it worth all the communication overhead and training for the benefits Linux has over Windows? What are those benefits anyways?
Re:Linux is Most Used OS in Microsoft Azure – over 50 percen... by tracker1 on Wednesday May 13, 2020 @04:28PM (#23171447)
For the most part, nobody really cares or notices... our CI/CD and test environments run Linux/Docker but for the most part, the devs don't notice... it's still a lot of SQL and the UI is React+Redux+Material-UI.

I still get the occasional question when something breaks. That said, it would be nice if more understood some of the underlying stuff... I've had to champion a lot of the changes myself.

Re:Linux is Most Used OS in Microsoft Azure – over 50 percen... by voltagex_ on Tuesday May 12, 2020 @06:57PM (#23161130)
Yep, definitely - I've been working in Windows/ASP.NET for 10 years. More on the sysadmin side of things now, but it's still big enough to have a career.