News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Systemd, ten years later: a historical and technical retr... by ttctciyf on Sunday May 03, 2020 @08:08PM (#23062984)
To answer your question:

remote login, start screen, ctl-A d (detach), log out, log back in, screen -r (resume) - there is no screen session because it was killed by systemd immediately after log out.

(syslog entry: May 3 09:01:25 $HOSTNAME systemd[1]: session-6.scope: Killing process 3290 (screen) with signal SIGTERM. )

But that's hardly the point, the point is the toxic "you're doing it wrong" mentality that infests the systemd project and its adherents. I've run into this in so many ways since ceding defeat and allowing it onto my systems. This is just the latest in a long line of examples.

Re:Systemd, ten years later: a historical and technical retr... by hedora on Sunday May 03, 2020 @10:21PM (#23063932)
Based on one of the sibling comments, if you modify screen to add a runtime dependency on systemd, the problem will go away.

I agree this is totally unacceptable, and that the inevitable tone deaf response to such complaints is also unacceptable.

Re:Systemd, ten years later: a historical and technical retr... by Spivak on Monday May 04, 2020 @02:13PM (#23071379)
Is it that weird that if you want to run a job in the background outside your session that ask your service manager to spawn the job?

I mean all of this is just a difference of opinion between, "I want a process supervisor to manage all my background jobs" and "I just want to double fork and throw processes at init."

Re:Systemd, ten years later: a historical and technical retr... by cesarb on Sunday May 03, 2020 @09:36PM (#23063658)
> remote login, start screen, ctl-A d (detach), log out, log back in, screen -r (resume)

I just tried it on a fully up-to-date CentOS 8 box (which uses systemd), and it worked perfectly fine: after logging back in through ssh, `screen -r` restored the screen session as expected.

From what I have read, that screen session would only be killed if I had set KillUserProcesses=yes on /etc/systemd/logind.conf, which is not the default.

Re:Systemd, ten years later: a historical and technical retr... by tyingq on Sunday May 03, 2020 @11:12PM (#23064191)
It is the default.

This behavior is controlled by the KillUserProcesses= setting in logind.conf, and the previous default of "no" is now changed to "yes".

https://github.com/systemd/systemd/blob/2d4f8cf467b6825c9127...

Re:Systemd, ten years later: a historical and technical retr... by frio on Sunday May 03, 2020 @11:27PM (#23064268)
This is one of those fun situations where everyone's right.

The upstream default has changed, but CentOS still uses the old default.

Re:Systemd, ten years later: a historical and technical retr... by m45t3r on Monday May 04, 2020 @12:27AM (#23064549)
Almost every distro I know turns this option off by default, including Arch, NixOS and Debian (the last one I am not sure).
Re:Systemd, ten years later: a historical and technical retr... by fsh on Monday May 04, 2020 @03:18AM (#23065368)
It defaults to "no" on Debian 10. Maybe Fedora changed the default?
Re:Systemd, ten years later: a historical and technical retr... by Conan_Kudo on Monday May 04, 2020 @04:04AM (#23065579)
Re:Systemd, ten years later: a historical and technical retr... by dTal on Monday May 04, 2020 @07:44AM (#23066823)
That's most interesting, given that both systemd and Fedora are Red Hat products. If there's one distro that would use the systemd defaults, I would expect it to be Fedora. Who exactly are these defaults for, then?
Re:Systemd, ten years later: a historical and technical retr... by Conan_Kudo on Monday May 04, 2020 @02:21PM (#23071450)
I've mainly seen it switched on for appliances and things that don't really have a legacy of this behavior.

It's not switched on in RHEL or Fedora. It's likely to never be so.

Re:Systemd, ten years later: a historical and technical retr... by ttctciyf on Sunday May 03, 2020 @10:43PM (#23064049)
Switching to CentOS in order to use screen is not an appealing option, and the config appears not to work on my current distro (that might be my poor testing, but it's certainly not the default anyhow.)

I understand Slackware still lacks systemd, so maybe that's a better choice for me :)

Re:Systemd, ten years later: a historical and technical retr... by fsh on Monday May 04, 2020 @01:43AM (#23064924)
Please submit a bug report if the option doesn't work for you.
Re:Systemd, ten years later: a historical and technical retr... by anon102010 on Monday May 04, 2020 @12:54AM (#23064690)
I'm not getting this at all - so this is a can't duplicate. What distro are you using?
Re:Systemd, ten years later: a historical and technical retr... by ttctciyf on Monday May 04, 2020 @07:06AM (#23066582)
The box in question is in use as a media server, but reloading logind logs out the X session, so it wasn't really possible to test properly until today. Having the opportunity to restart the machine (probably I just needed to systemctl daemon-reload?) the "don't kill my processes bro" options are working.

The distro is kde neon.

The point isn't that I can't (or the distro maintainers can't) get it to work, the point is that the aggressive systemd default breaks established practice, and that this is typical systemd behaviour: arrogant and uncaring. IOW user-hostile in the fullest sense of the term. It's not like this is an isolated example.

Re:Systemd, ten years later: a historical and technical retr... by yrro on Monday May 04, 2020 @03:45AM (#23065490)
Which distro is this?