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Re:U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Rec... by Tistron on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @10:42AM (#23019825)
In Scandinavia we've had some sort of pragmatic market socialism, not much central planning but reasonable redistribution in various ways. Seems to work fairly well, although large parts of it has been (and is being) dismantled by the liberals (those are the right here, not the left).
Re:U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Rec... by _-david-_ on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @01:04PM (#23021491)
To call it socialism is incorrect.

Carl Bildt (former Prime Minister of Sweeden) said "Bernie Sanders was lucky to be able to get to the Soviet Union in 1988 and praise all its stunning socialist achievements before the entire system and empire collapsed under the weight of its own spectacular failures." [0]

Lars Løkke Rasmussen (former Prime Minister of Denmark) said "I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism. Therefore I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy" [1]

Seems like they both reject the idea of them being socialist countries. They are both non-socialist countries that have market economies. They just happen to have a larger welfare state than a lot of countries. Having a large welfare state has nothing to do with socialism though.

[0] https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/1100039769810235393 [1] https://www.thelocal.dk/20151101/danish-pm-in-us-denmark-is-...

Re:U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Rec... by cpursley on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @01:27PM (#23021790)
Exactly! You can have a competitive market economy (i.e., not central planning) with a functioning social welfare system.
Re:U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Rec... by Tistron on Thursday April 30, 2020 @04:20AM (#23028669)
Yes, both Carl Bildt and Lars Løkke are liberals and part of dismantling/developing our system into less socialist or "social" if you prefer.

We certainly don't have central planning, and if that was inherent in the word socialism I guess Lars Løkke wouldn't have had to say "far from a socialist planned economy". It is far from that. It is also, as I see it, increasingly far from a social(ist) system, but we did use to have more of that, and in my opinion (not alone here) it was better.

I am fairly well educated and have had a good salary when I was working (voluntarily not working right now because I have lots of money and prefer to do other things), but like many others around here I prefer that my money gets spent having a functional society to having more pocket money to buy luxury items.

And I know that from a Liberal/libertarian pov I don't have the right to decide that for others, but from my point of view that kind of exaggerated individualism is dysfunctional and individuals don't exist any more or less than groups. We need both rights and pragmatic optimisation of general wellbeing. Everybody is better off when there is less poverty and misery around.

Re:U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Rec... by cpursley on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @10:51AM (#23019959)
Yeah, but Scandinavians are civilized ;)

Seriously though, Scandinavia is proof that you can have a free market and social programs at the same time and have it work well. It's when bureaucrats get their fingers into planning the economy when things end up very poorly.

Re:U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Rec... by hunter2_ on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @11:38AM (#23020485)
Wait, are you saying that the terms "right/left" are used opposite compared to the US (meaning that the Scandinavian right prefers socialism), or that the term "liberal" is used opposite compared to the US (meaning that Scandinavian liberals oppose socialism)?
Re:U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Rec... by ModernMech on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @12:13PM (#23020878)
liberals everywhere oppose socialism. From wiki:

"Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on liberty, consent of the governed and equality before the law.[1][2][3] Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but they generally support free markets, free trade, limited government, individual rights (including civil rights and human rights), capitalism, democracy, secularism, gender equality, racial equality, internationalism, freedom of speech, freedom of the press and freedom of religion."

In the US, the overton window is so far right that liberals are considered left of moderates. But liberals are not leftists, i.e. people who would support socialism. It's like

left --------------------- liberals --- moderates ---- right

                ^Scandinavian moderate
Re:U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Rec... by mdemare on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @12:20PM (#23020959)
Liberals and Christian Democrats are center-right, Social-Democrats and Greens center-left. Those are the main power blocks in quite a few European countries.

And US liberals and European liberals have quite different ideas about taxes, immigration, climate change, law and order. Europeans would not call Biden or Warren liberals. (Who would Europeans call a liberal? Maybe Paul Ryan, or Bloomberg).

Re:U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Rec... by cgh on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @12:48PM (#23021281)
The word "liberal" in the US is used in a way unlike anywhere else. Classic liberalism, as the term is used everywhere else, is embodied by publications like eg The Economist.
Re:U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Rec... by mzg on Wednesday April 29, 2020 @12:29PM (#23021045)
Meaning that the "center" of Scandinavian politics is to the left of liberalism. Left != liberal.