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Re:With questionable copyright claim, Jay-Z orders deepfake ... by colechristensen on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @08:01PM (#23013658)
Deepfakes (a better term is needed) are by their nature derivative works, which copyright already handles with the original's owner retaining rights which have to be acquired. I have absolutely no problem with it. If you don't own the copyright to your entire training data set, you are infringing by publishing something the model produces as I see it.

The courts or the legislature are going to have to address how your rights to your own image being synthesized like this, but again, I have no problem with someone retaining the same sorts of original ownership rights when it comes to derivative works that use data collected from them, beyond just who owns the copyright to the works in the dataset. (voice, video, images, etc.)

Re:With questionable copyright claim, Jay-Z orders deepfake ... by akersten on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @10:14PM (#23014539)
> If you don't own the copyright to your entire training data set, you are infringing by publishing something the model produces as I see it.

Imagine if that were true - a human artist couldn't create anything, because everything in the world around them is their training set!

I think it has to be a likeness test - if an average person would think its a real Jay-Z music video, then it's a derivative work. Don't muddy it with the implementation details of how it was made.

Re:With questionable copyright claim, Jay-Z orders deepfake ... by colechristensen on Thursday April 30, 2020 @05:54PM (#23036626)
A human isn't a machine. What is in your head is sacred to the law. A neural network algorithm and its data is not.
Re:With questionable copyright claim, Jay-Z orders deepfake ... by Reelin on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @09:53PM (#23014417)
> If you don't own the copyright to your entire training data set, you are infringing by publishing something the model produces as I see it.

I suspect that would be an absolutely terrible standard in practice. I realize you specifically have deepfakes in mind, but consider that in more general terms those are outputs from a machine learning algorithm. Such outputs will inevitably fall on a continuum regarding the degree to which they resemble a distinctive art style, voice, personality, or other metric.

It seems unreasonable to me that it should be illegal to use arbitrary input data to train a NLP translation model or an image classifier. Farther along the spectrum of outputs, style transfer GANs don't seem like they should be a violation of the law. Should TWDNE really be against the law to host? (https://www.thiswaifudoesnotexist.net/) According to your proposed standard, it would be.

Re:With questionable copyright claim, Jay-Z orders deepfake ... by irjustin on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @08:44PM (#23013972)
I agree with deepfakes are derivatives. You're using the likeness of someone whether visual or audio to highlight work. People pay attention because of that likeness. Weird Al asks for permission, video games have to pay royalties. So JayZ should have been asked permission in that sense.

If this was a parody, that could probably be argued very differently. Not sure where this particular case falls legally.

I don't agree with if you don't own the copyright you are infringing by publishing something the model produces. It should be tied back to the likeness of the original source.

The argument would be - if I never used any copyrighted JayZ sources (talking in a public setting, not giving a speech) and produced a deepfake, provably so, that would prevent me from being sued by JayZ & co?

Ideally no, because I'm still using his likeness to promote something.

Re:With questionable copyright claim, Jay-Z orders deepfake ... by gnopgnip on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @11:47PM (#23015108)
Copyright only protects the written implementation, not ideas or likenesses. The amount of protection a likeness gets varies a lot more between states, it is a different set of laws, and outside of advertisements or defamation it often is not protected at all.
Re:With questionable copyright claim, Jay-Z orders deepfake ... by gnopgnip on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @10:54PM (#23014776)
Whether or not something is a derivative, or it is a new transformative work is is legally transformative in a lot more cases than you would expect. Cariou v. Prince page 4 and 5 is the most famous example, and even this minimal change is legally transformative. https://cyber.harvard.edu/people/tfisher/cx/2013_Cariou.pdf